Topic: Exercise with oof files

[Thomas]

It seems more to be a server problem and if I remember right, it will hit you if the server restarts first.

It seems to be absolutely random. Maybe it's got something to do what happens with these objects during the game. I have no idea.

Mission xy contains custom objects. The objects are not extracted into the main folder. Sometimes, the server crashes in the middle of a game with "Could not load object.oof". Most of the time the server crashes when the mission is about to restart. Sometimes it doesn't crash at all and even rolls over to the beginning perfectly at the end of the mission. Bear in mind, all of these variations with the same unchanged mission! 

Other missions tend to crash every single time in the middle of a game and others only crash at its end.

So if you replace an 'stock' object with an custom one and the custom gam is inside the D3 dir, D3 will show this custom as replacement always.
I can't remember all of that story but we searched for such related problem often.

I reckon quite a lot of effort has been put into that research already. So did we.

[Thomas]

For example, when participating with some MP games in connection with the Descent Fan Fiction, there was special custom games setup with custom ships...

Can you point me to one of these games? I couldn't find anything there.

[(LL)Atan]

...seems to be absolutely random. Maybe it's got something to do what happens with these objects during the game.

...in the middle of a game with "Could not load object.oof"

Well, that's the answer about the moment of crash.
If there is an object needed at level-start the server crashes at start.
If the game needs that object later, the crash will occur.. later.
Seems D3 don't load ALL things at level start to handle with memory.
That the server needs this custom oof's seems to be a bug inside the game. There is no problem with textures etc.

[TechPro]

Well, it would seem that I didn't describe the download part sufficiently (my bad).  I meant to say that the item (or items) needed to be downloaded to the client's computer beforehand.  Whether that's done by autodownload of a zip, or in advance by the end user, I could really care less.  Either way, a needed resource ... needs to be there.

Should the components have been placed inside the mission file instead of being separate?  I suppose so.  It's also possible the author knew it might be changing frequently, and thus didn't put the resource in the mission file ... with the intention of doing that later when development was completely finished.

For example, when participating with some MP games in connection with the Descent Fan Fiction, there was special custom games setup with custom ships...

Can you point me to one of these games? I couldn't find anything there.

Have you gotten yourself a membership with that forum?  Some things are not available unless you are a member of that forum.

[Thomas]

Have you gotten yourself a membership with that forum?  Some things are not available unless you are a member of that forum.

I have now after attempting to get the right captcha code in, 12 million times in a row.
I'll have a look later on.

[Thomas]

No, I won't.

"You have exceeded the number of registration attempts for this session. Please try again later."

Nice site, but I reckon it will have to exist without my registration.

[(LL)Atan]

Should the custom (oof!) components have been placed inside the mission file instead of being separate?  I suppose so.

I'm not sure if I get your sentence right here, so if I go wrong with it, please ignore this comment.

Assume the custom oof components are inside the mission, as they should be.
If you play that mission as player in SP or as client in Mp you don't need to extract anything. All is well.
But if this same mission runs on a server -without- extracting that custom oof's into servers d3 main dir, this server may/will crash as soon as the game need one of this cutom oof's.
Clients don't need to extract anything, server only!

This behavior is well known, so the server operator will put this custom oof's into the d3 main dir.
But he doesn't know which ones he should extract or he has no idea how to do that.
That is why i.e. I collect all the needed custom oof's into a different zip file with the comment to extract that contents into the d3 main dir to make life easier.

You are right if you say that if that custom oof's forgotten at all, this mission will not be playable as the level designer wanted.
Or if the client has a different version as the server. That will produce problems too. All, server and client(s) need the same mission file with identical contents, that's right.
But once again, the server has to extract the custom oof into the d3 main dir otherwise -crash-

[Thomas]

This behavior is well known, so the server operator will put this custom oof's into the d3 main dir.
But he doesn't know which ones he should extract or he has no idea how to do that.

That's exactly what this is on about. 

The new server tool will hopefully take care of this, but that won't help for in-game servers. In-game servers are another issue to be looked after somehow.

[Foil]

For example, when participating with some MP games in connection with the Descent Fan Fiction, there was special custom games setup with custom ships...

Can you point me to one of these games? I couldn't find anything there.

Take a look at this thread when you get a chance.  I don't think I still have it, but OutToLunch had built a mod with a custom ship/tablefile/textures to go along with the story.  I believe it's the "Version 3C" mentioned there, though that link is broken.   Any of the DFF guys/gals still have the files for that?

[TechPro]

Hmmm... Let me see.

Yup, I still have it ... well, sort of.  I have the 3B version.  Not sure if it is the most recent, but it's the most recent one I still have. Attached to this post is a RAR file that contains the mod... and there are quite a few files in the mod.

To know and understand what a lot of the mods components are about, it helps to read the story it is based upon.

Will try to see if I can find the 3C version.

[-<WillyP>-]

What's the difference between a server and an 'in-game' server... are you talking about the server that you can set up through D3 to play on a lan?

[Scyphi]

Now I'm lost.

As I recall, the .OOF file name is short for Outrage Object File. That means any and all .oof files are objects to be used in-game, custom or otherwise. Also as I recall, one could easily build an .oof file with a variety of D3 editing tools, and save it as just the .oof file as is, and not have to put it in another file, such as an .mn3, straight away. Granted, you have to eventually in order to finish the mission and get it in working order, but you theoretically don't have to until you've got this .oof ready to your satisfaction.

I also know that many editors, when completing a level and releasing it, will include in the download ALL of the files that were used in it's creation. Copies of certain files such as an .oof, included separate from the .mn3 almost like a spare, are not uncommon among the newbies.

So...in that case, couldn't all these random .oof files be just that? Extra copies that the modder thought it might be a good idea to include, even though, as Atan has clearly stated, it was really necessary? Most likely, they were all just copied and pasted out of their home file (a .zip or other storage-type file) into the directory by the user to just guarantee that they got everything, quick and easy.

And another thing...for things such as custom ships that aren't specific to any one level, meaning you can select them out of the ship selection for MP games and play them in any level...I didn't think the .oof required being in anything like an .mn3 in order to work.

Like Techpro, I most certainly won't profess to be an expert at this, in fact, I'm probably anything but, these are just some observations and logical deductions mixed in with what I DO know about D3 modding to produce these theories. All of that just makes sense to me, so I'm bringing it up.

[(LL)Atan]

First of all, I don't think that anyone who is interested into Descent3 editing can call her/himself an expert about.
There may be a few with a good knowledge about single areas about that, but D3 editing is too complex.
There are too many things which can be done and changed, think about textures, ogf, oaf , objects, animated objects, animations, sound, gam entries!, scripting, single play, multiplayer, mp-scripting, terrain, rooms, editing, mn3/hog and so on and so on. Tons of different things and IMO no one can say that she/he can beat all that stuff, has the full knowledge about all.
Sure, during the time we found out some things, most by try and error. Time intensive without end....
I must state for my person that I can't remember all the things I tried out or where the problems exactly were. What I remember is, that I run into trouble without seeing it coming, often.
I'm not that expert, and I would never call me one. So some of my explanations may possible be wrong.
Now let me give some answers, ideas:

OOF file name is short for Outrage Object File

no doubt.

That means any and all .oof files are objects to be used in-game, custom or otherwise

No. Not really. Not all objects are used to be in game.
I often build an object and insert it into a level room and -merge- it then into that room. (Merge will insert objects faces as room faces. The OOF is gone this way)
This way I can easy place structures into any room, place them where I want it. Think for example about lamps here.
While I'm editing my level I hold a special gam and a hog from which I take the needed objects etc.
Inside the real mission gam you'll not find that merged object entry(s) neither you'll find that object(s) inside the mission mn3(hog) later.

and save it as just the .oof file as is, and not have to put it in another file

That's correct. But if you want to own it inside your mission you'll spread to www, then you badly need to place it into that mission file (mn3)
You may see your misson on your computer without a fault if you place that oof's into the d3 main dir.
But the player outside in www will not. He simply hasn't the needed files then. There is no difference if textures or objects, sounds (we talk about customs!)
Stock objects, no problem, they were delivered with the d3-hog(mn3) to all.
Your gam file tells D3 about the things needed inside your mission. D3 looks into that gam-entry, looks for the name of the oof, ogf, oaf, what ever you want..
And if this needed file isn't inside the mn3 (hog) so it simply can't handle it.

but you theoretically don't have to until you've got this .oof ready to your satisfaction.

Correct, you first need it inside that mn3/hog if you spread that mission. And sure you must place your oof where D3Edit looks into. And you need a gam-entry.

when completing a level and releasing it, will include in the download ALL of the files that were used in it's creation

This would be a nice feature for D3Edit too!

Extra copies that the modder thought it might be a good idea to include

This shouldn't be done. Don't place anything you don't need into that mission mn3, or leave gam entries of things you removed inside that mission gam.
WillyP will tell us what happened to him this way.

for things such as custom ships that aren't specific to any one level, meaning you can select them out of the ship selection for MP games and play them in any level...I didn't think the .oof required being in anything like an .mn3 in order to work.

Any custom must be available, equal if SP or MP. There are two ways to do that.
1. place that file(s) and related things into each single mission mn3. This way everyone will own the needed file without any problem.
2. place that files into a different mn3/gam. Offer that mn3 so it can be downloaded as enhancement. This will not be done automatically.
If the player puts this mn3 into the D3 main dir, it will available if needed, always. (BP)
If D3 don't find needed things, then it will look into the main dir and some other dirs too. So D3 will find you custom ships even if they are not inside your mission file now.
But be careful, due D3 has a chain to search along, it may happen that it take that main dir hog always now.
Let's say you place a newer version of your ship into your mission mn3 and don't change that one which is inside the main dir.., then D3 will not show that new one. (if I remember correctly)

Ok, I hope I didn't talk to much or too loud and make not too much spelling faults here. If so.., sorry!

[-<WillyP>-]

In the oldest tutorials, that have not been updated, it was not told to put the oof in the mn3, you had to name them after an existing object, then  place them in the main d3 directory. So then they would 'over-rule' that same named file in the main d3 hog. So some people peobably don't do that. I prefer not to because I know I will forget to remove them when I am done with them.

I think Scy meant to include extra files, for benefit of anyone who wanted to use your work in there own work, particularly it would be nice to see the scripting source in DALLAS sometimes just to see how something is done. But I don't think you can include these file in the mn3, at all,

Dang! Power went out! When it came back on and I opened Firefox, here is my half typed message... Woo Hoo!

[Thomas]

What's the difference between a server and an 'in-game' server... are you talking about the server that you can set up through D3 to play on a lan?

You can play all servers in a LAN. 

Descent 3 servers can run in two different modes: Dedicated servers and in-game servers.
In-game servers are hosted by one of the players "in-game".

Here's an explanation: http://www.dateiliste.com/en/descent-3/3-playing-descent-3-online/17-hosting-descent-3-game-servers.html?start=3