Topic: D3 Level 4 thief bug

[-<WillyP>-]

Interesting!  I wonder if that leaves the bot untied to any room... hmm.

That was my theory. Somehow, he could find me, though. 

[(LL)Atan]

It took me hours and hours troubleshooting an related problem with one of my custom bots with custom ai.
Suddenly it attacked from outside the mine like a ghost (which could be seen if inside the room). I heard it sounds and I was hit but I couldn't hit that ghost bot myself. It goes in and out the mine. This bot could not be forgotten outside one, it was produced by a mat center only! So I did a very very deep look at the area where this center is. No problem at all. And believe me I'm know what a hole in the shell means and is. So I thought it is my custom AI which will produce this problem. Troubleshooting hours, days, weeks.. but I couldn't find that problem at all. I gave up to search for that. Then, one day, I found a list where some D3 problems listed. Look here: http://www.suncho.com/buglist.html

69. Name: Ghost Bots

Problem: The player will be attacked by a robot that does not exist, or can't be seen. Not sure which.

Trigger: Unknown.

Notes: These ghosts are usually "contact" bots, but ghost squids have also been reported. Seems it can happen on any level, both in Retribution and Merc. The robots are usually identifiable by their attack sounds, which play during the attack. After-burning away a few rooms usually seems to leave the ghost behind. The damage done by the ghost is much higher then normal.

So i don't believe that this is a self made problem, it's a random bug inside D3.
It's like said from someone before, the game has an object which is not linked to any room. This way it can't be handled anymore.
BTW, D3EditAV checks for (forgotten) objects outside the mine meanwhile.

[Scyphi]

So in that case, any one of us could be right about what's causing this, or none of us at all.

In short, though, it is as Atan said; blame D3. It's all it's fault.

[-<WillyP>-]

Ok, we're talking different things here... in the case of the bot placed outside the level, you can see it, but you cannot run a few rooms away to escape... it will find you wherever you are.

And completely different from the OP's phantom Thief. But interesting concepts, all. 

[Scyphi]

No, I think Atan's nailed it. We just don't know anything about it. :|

[-<WillyP>-]

I am sure Atan is correct in his case... What I am saying, we have discussed three different scenarios.

• The original post: A bot is co-located with the player. Player can sometimes see the bot, sometimes not. Player takes no damage from collision, but does interact with bot in other ways.
• My version has a bot placed outside the level, intentional or otherwise. The bot attains super-unnatural powers of traveling through walls, but is otherwise normal.
• Atan's version, where a bot may or may not be visible, and was not placed outside the level prior to level-start. This bot can also super-navigate through walls. Atan's bot was further-more immune to attack, yet was capable of attacking.

[Scyphi]

Atan's version sounds the same as the first version to me...am I missing something? 

[-<WillyP>-]

Ok, I'll type in all caps so you can hear me... no, just kidding... BUT:

From the video linked in the first post:

A Thief appears inside of me, steals some of my stuff, and disappears. As you can see in the video, gunboys and seeker mines do not react.

Suddenly it attacked from outside the mine like a ghost (which could be seen if inside the room). I heard it sounds and I was hit but I couldn't hit that ghost bot myself. It goes in and out the mine.

Clearly, "A thief appears inside of me" is NOT the same as "Suddenly it attacked from outside the mine". It could be related to the same bug, who knows. But to me it is a completely different set of parameters: Atan's own made level vs Retribution Level 4, and completely different action, appearing inside a player vs coming from outside a level.

[Scyphi]

To quote a quote from Atan...

69. Name: Ghost Bots

Problem: The player will be attacked by a robot that does not exist, or can't be seen. Not sure which.

Trigger: Unknown.

Notes: These ghosts are usually "contact" bots, but ghost squids have also been reported. Seems it can happen on any level, both in Retribution and Merc. The robots are usually identifiable by their attack sounds, which play during the attack. After-burning away a few rooms usually seems to leave the ghost behind. The damage done by the ghost is much higher then normal.

Note the description of the problem, which describes it possibly being both an intangible bot wandering around (like what you describe WillyP), and an unseen bot that can seem to attack the player without appearing to have approached (like our Phantom Thief). I would think this bug alone could account for both bugs.

I suppose it doesn't really matter how this bug works in the end, though, because it all boils down to the same thing: we don't have any real clue as to what's causing this. That much I think we can agree on.

The question we should really probably be asking now is: did the guy ever manage to fix his Phantom Thief problem? 

[-<WillyP>-]

No, the phenomenon I describe is a very real bot, it exists, it was place by the level designer. The only difference is that is was placed outside the level, that is, not inside any room. And somehow that give the bot the power to pass thru any wall. Other than that it is a perfectly normal bot!

And we do know the exact cause of my scenario, it is caused by placing a bot outside the level. This is not a D3 bug!

The other two phenoms are not caused by this same cause. Atan has stated that a bot could not have been placed, or have somehow gotten outside his level, and if Atan says this is so, I trust it to be true. I think it is unlikely the thief was placed outside L4, surely someone would have found that out and it would be well known.

It's possible, based on what has been said here, that Atan's anomaly could be caused by the same cause as the OP. But given the different symptoms, I think it is rather unlikely. It would be like, one guy says he has a headache, another says he has a sore elbow. To the first you recommend Tylenol, to the second an ice pack.

But I agree, we are getting a bit off topic...

[Scyphi]

Feh...I've missed something somewhere here, but oh well, little point in trying to sort it out now...

I repeat my earlier question...did the guy get it fixed, and rid himself of the phantom thief? Does he know what happened and why?

[(LL)Atan]

The only difference is that is was placed outside the level

Willy, where is this information from?
See my attached picture. I really don't know how this happened in that video, but what I can do is to open L4 an have a look. What I can see there is, that the thief is placed inside the level. I can't find (did a quick look) any thief outside. But if I use Verify I can see lot's of possible possibilities how an bot could go outside.
Hope this helps even if I can't see any sense inside this little discussion
It is as it is..

[Foil]

I also wouldn't discount the possibility that a bot with an incorrect room pointer could behave very differently whether in another room or out in terrain areas (like the L4 video).

[NUMBERZero]

Here's what he said in a PM to me after I showed him the link to this page.

"well, I just finished that level with basic equipment. It never occured in following levels. And sorry, I can't check if it's just that this one time something went wrong while loading a level or if it's a static bug - I uninstalled D3. I installed this game many times, went through it many times, and it happened only once, so I guess it won't happen again.

I had no saves from before level 4. Ha."

Guess it only happens rarely. My bad. I had said it happened multiple times. 

Coincidence is that it happened to him while he was recording. REAL coincidence was when it happened to me with a Sharc on Lv 14. I was recording too and it was laggy. I never saw the sharc inside of the ship, I was recieving damage rapidly. The thief is supposed to go and steal weapons and back off for a while whether it's being shot at or not. Maybe that's why it seems to attack so stagardly. Sharcs I think will go for you if you don't move or shoot.

[-<WillyP>-]

The only difference is that is was placed outside the level

Willy, where is this information from?
See my attached picture. I really don't know how this happened in that video, but what I can do is to open L4 an have a look. What I can see there is, that the thief is placed inside the level. I can't find (did a quick look) any thief outside. But if I use Verify I can see lot's of possible possibilities how an bot could go outside.
Hope this helps even if I can't see any sense inside this little discussion
It is as it is..

Sorry if it was unclear, what I am saying is that in my own level, I accidently placed a bot outside the level. And that is a different case than described by you and by the Original Poster. To me, this means three different scenarios.