Topic: Talon v1.0 Released!

[Scyphi]

Because I'm thinking a 6DOF space sim might be one way to easily create a fun, short single-player campaign, especially if the Freespace community got involved (I'm sure there are a few who would love this game).

I know this hasn't been Scottris's plan for promoting Talon, but I'm starting D2Junkie's got the right idea here, and it helps I made an observation about space sins just earlier today. I was watching a top-ten video on YouTube about upcoming space sims (as of mid-2013, which is about the same now as it was then) and noticed that they were ALL MMORPGs, all bearing multiplayer as the primary focus. Now, I can see the appeal of a space-sim MMORPG just as much as the next guy (even though they aren't my kind of game), but that seems just more than a little excessive to me if all the "good" space-sim games on the market, both currently and upcoming, are MMORPGs. It seems like the time would be now to do something a little different.

Which is where Talon fits in, because it occurs to me that, from the outsider's perspective looking for a new game to try, Talon looks like just another one of those MMORPGs, except pocket-size and the RPG element eliminated. Now we obviously know there's more to it than that because we've all played it, and are previously familiar with the sort of formula it runs off of; we know it works as-is. But at first glance, it's hard for Talon to convey that until you actually play it...which means you gotta get a player interested enough in it to try it out. And from that perspective, it's hard to see what Talon has that numerous other games don't.

And then there's the fact it's all multiplayer-driven. That's all fine and dandy, but after awhile there's really only so much multiplayer you can do before it becomes "more of the same." Also, with all the MMORPGs and like games bouncing around, it's possible the market's on the verge of facing a sort of "multiplayer burn-out," where people have to stop and ask "do we REALLY need another one of these?" I know I'm starting to feel that, and looking around at the other players in the world, even though they don't explicitly say it, I'm starting to think they're starting to come to similar conclusions.

The point I'm trying to make is that maybe Talon needs to do something to sweeten the deal, something to help it stand out more. From a technical standpoint it's good, but that's something you don't "see," it's something you "feel," which you have to play the game to experience. But if you can't "see" it, it's hard to understand it's there. Without that, Talon, I must admit, doesn't "look" all that special.

So maybe we can throw something in with it to make it "look" more appealing. The obvious thing would be to throw in some kind of single-player campaign of any length, but if that's off the table, I'm sure there are other things one could do. For example, I was unaware until reading these recent posts that Talon had development tools now. Maybe if Talon advertised that capability more, or better still, came pre-packaged with such tools, as well as presented some quick and easy means to find and download custom maps, that would generate interest. Just throwing out some thoughts here.

Also, speaking of development tools, point me in the direction of some, and I'll see if I can put together a "tweaked" version of Killing Fields that makes the players more obligated to stay closer to the terrain. 

[D2Disciple]

Scyphi, I think you and I are on the same page here. I'm not sure if anyone has ever done a 6DOF space sim before; it's an opportunity for Talon to do something different without resorting to gimmicky gameplay alterations to make it stand out. It already proves it can handle indoor missions, outdoor missions, and space missions... That's a good start in convincing people to join up and play.

On the subject of singleplayer, I have a genuinely doable idea that would require only a little scripting and maybe a bit of map-making. I find that staying simple sometimes works much better than trying to be complex; it's why I prefer D1 and D2's key-based gameplay over D3's objective-based gameplay. And Talon could easily include an arcade singleplayer and co-op mode a la Halo Reach's "Firefight" mode: model a few fighter craft to target the player(s), and a few bomber craft to attack a primary base in the center of the map. Provide a repair station and a reloading station on opposite ends of the map, and have waves of enemies come in from different angles. Make the initial waves smaller, with weaker ships and weaker weapons (pulse lasers and dart rockets), and move upward in the frequency and strength of the waves (more heavily-shielded bombers with buster rockets and faster fighters with raser cannons). Keep score, and give each player a maximum of five lives. Dole out extra lives at certain score intervals. The game ends when the players run out of lives or the primary base is destroyed by the attackers.

This would be easiest to add to Frontier as-is, and building a large mine and a large canyon level would create a wide variety of gameplay options with only a handful of maps.

To sweeten the deal, you could add a simpler "survival" mode to any of the existing maps, where waves attack only the player and the difficulty and strength of the opponents ramps up with each successive wave.

If you could keep global records (not sure if it's possible), I think you'd have a lot of people wanting to play this game. Pure, arcade 6DOF action is something that really hasn't existed before, either.

[Kaiaatzl]

...it helps I made an observation about space sins just earlier today...

You mean like these guys?

(17:25, the timecode stopped working as soon as there was another post XD)

I was unaware until reading these recent posts that Talon had development tools now. Maybe if Talon advertised that capability more, or better still, came pre-packaged with such tools, as well as presented some quick and easy means to find and download custom maps, that would generate interest. Just throwing out some thoughts here.

I like this idea, it's a good starting point that's easy to do and could have a large payoff.

[Scyphi]

You mean like these guys?

Sims! I meant space SIMS!

@ D2Junkie: I like a lot of those ideas. Relatively simple, but enough to add interest to an already promising game. Only problem is whether or not Scottris will go for them; it is HIS game, after all, and I don't know what sort of position he's in at the moment to make those sort of changes.

[Kaiaatzl]

I thought of a really simple piece of trickery that could help with the space sim issue... to focus almost solely on the indoor combat in promotional material.  Yeah, about the simplest thing possible to come up with.
Just seeing a trailer like that that shows "space" combat indoors would grab the attention of those MMORPG peoples even if they'd never heard of Descent.  Cuz they'd be all curious, like "what a crazy idea.  I wonder how that works." and follow linkies and find out and like it on facebook and be all 1337 and stuff.  Curiosity is a powerful force.  Just like gravity isn't (in this game).
It was like when I saw that book on TvTropes and I was like, that's such a crazy idea it's either going to be, like, totally awesome and insightful or, like, so horribly done it's hilarious.  Either way I'm all, I want to read that.
And that point is, like, Talon is not horribly done.

[Scyphi]

Yeah, that could help, but I still worry it's not conveying enough, and we'd still have potential players passing it up...furthermore, I seem to recall that what promotional video Scottris has put out there pretty much has focused largely on indoor gameplay...though I could be remembering wrong...haven't watched said video in awhile...

Still...as good a place to start as any.

What I'd really like at this point, though, is to hear Scottris's two-bits on all of this right about now. I mean, this is his game, so I'd like to hear his opinion on all of this.