Topic: MLK

[Matthew]

Mm, you have a point, WillyP, but as already said before, Karx isn't exaggerating as much as we'd all like to believe. Things are getting to be just about as bad as he says.

Again, I don't know about where you live, but everybody here constantly moans about how bad it is. We are anything but blind.

[Alieo]

The REAL problem here in America is that we let rogue politicians run away with the law!

Most people have this mentality that their vote doesn't count, so they don't vote. Others are brainwashed by the government psychologically-controlled liberal media into believing so-and-so is THE candidate to vote for. That's how these senators and congressmen get into office and run our country amok with the ridiculous laws and regulations. Government is getting bigger and bigger and we have GOT to take a stand! I don't want to learn Cantonese, DAMMIT!!! 

[-<WillyP>-]

Mm, you have a point, WillyP, but as already said before, Karx isn't exaggerating as much as we'd all like to believe. Things are getting to be just about as bad as he says.

Oh, heck no. What country do you live in?

[Kaiaatzl]

Hey, don't bash liberals in front of me.  At least, not without a reason ("government controlled liberal media" doesn't count).  Don't turn into Stephen Harper.
Respect other political philosophies even if you oppose them.  Otherwise you're as bad as the philosophies you hate.
Yeah I'm sorry if I sound harsh but that's one of the things I hate about some politicians.

Should I tell you my voting philosophy?

[Matthew]

There's a simple solution to all this of course. Set the pay for both houses of congress at 60K a year. That will get rid of the politicians and bring about actual leaders who actually know what they're there for. There was a time, a very long time ago, when being in congress was an honor, not a source of income to be grappled for by any means necessary.

[Scyphi]

Again, I don't know about where you live, but everybody here constantly moans about how bad it is. We are anything but blind.

Okay, you all moan and gripe, sure, but nobody actually DOES anything about it. Alieo summed it up the best:

The REAL problem here in America is that we let rogue politicians run away with the law!

See, the issue isn't so much that Americans are unaware, it's that they are more than aware, but seem more inclined to just try and ignore the issue, hoping it'll go away on it's own. I'm even guilty of this, especially since I hate getting too involved in politics, but the point of the matter that ignoring a problem isn't going to make it go away. That's partly how America has gotten into it's economic trouble in the first place. We ignored it until it got so worse to the point it's threatening to do us in, financially.

Most people have this mentality that their vote doesn't count, so they don't vote.

Not necessarily. If they're like me, they could be of the opinion that they don't like anyone (or anything) that's up for a vote so they feel that no matter how they vote, they still lose, and thereby don't bother. This is how I'm feeling with the present election candidates at the moment. Don't really like any of them, and so if that persists, I might just not vote because for me it wouldn't matter who I'd vote for, I wouldn't like who I'd eventually end up with.

Oh, heck no. What country do you live in?

I live in Idaho, which, last I checked, is a part of America, is it not?

Yeah I'm sorry if I sound harsh but that's one of the things I hate about some politicians.

You're not alone. This is one of the reasons why I don't like all of the candidates at the moment, because they're spending more time bashing each other than actually trying to come up with plans to fix things, or even, for that matter, really convincing us, the citizens, that they can fix things at all. At least, if they are, they haven't been exactly winning my heart over the matter, but that's another topic.

Set the pay for both houses of congress at 60K a year. That will get rid of the politicians and bring about actual leaders who actually know what they're there for. There was a time, a very long time ago, when being in congress was an honor, not a source of income to be grappled for by any means necessary.

You're forgetting, though, that it's not just the money they're after, it's the power. America may still be a democratic government, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have positions of power that people greedily want to have.

But I will concede that cutting the politican's paycheck probably would be a good place to start, if only to get back at them for all the stupid things they do.

[Matthew]

So what do you suggest doing? If there's nobody good to vote for, voting is ineffective as you stated. What do you want me to do, run for president? Politicians have already shown they're good at ignoring the people.

[-<WillyP>-]

Oh, heck no. What country do you live in?

I live in Idaho, which, last I checked, is a part of America, is it not?

I would certainly hope so. But you seem to be very pessimistic in your views, of the US of A, and US politics in particular. Some of what Karx says is true, but doesn't apply in general. And if you really want to see how not to have a country, look around outside the US, point being, the US, overall is still the best. Yes we have some problems, yes the economy sucks, yes the national debt is an outrage. But nearly every country in the whole world has far worse problems. Anyway, my point was more directed at Karx's comment something to the effect of the candidates fighting each other. And that comment shows that he does not have the kind of understanding of how it is done here that can only be gained from having been born and raised here. Our election process is a battle, to determine who will lead, we need to see the best and worst of each candidate. We elect a President not just based on promises and positions, but character, personality and presence are important considerations also.

We need to balance the federal budget, and enact laws that would keep it balanced. We need to stop supporting foreign governments. We need to have a clear foreign policy that sets strict limits on our military activity abroad. We need to cut the federal governments size and scope down to a reasonable, manageable size, reducing it's authority to that given it in the constitution, and return the authority for everything else back to the states where it belongs. We need to abolish the IRS and eliminate income taxes altogether.  There is only one candidate who would work toward these changes, and that is Ron Paul.

I don't know who you hang with but all... ok, most ... of my friends and relatives are very involved and active in pursuing whatever political visions they might have. My sister, for example, much as I love her, is a *gasp* liberal. Make that Liberal with a capitol L. We discuss issues frequently and often have 'wars' on Facebook. We both support our positions actively, and fight 'tooth and nail' so to speak. But every visit begins and ends with a hug and a kiss, its all good in the end. To say that most people don't vote because of this reason or that... I don't know, what do you base it on? I suspect the liberal media brainwashing...

[TechPro]

Nicely put, WillyP.  I couldn't have said it better.  ... though I disagree about Ron Paul, which is just one of the many freedoms enjoyed in the U.S. of A.

[Matthew]

Balancing the budget and eliminating the IRS is like filling in your hole after selling the dirt that was in it.

[-<WillyP>-]

That may be true, but nonetheless, the hole is there now and needs to be filled.

[Scyphi]

But you seem to be very pessimistic in your views

This is true. When it comes to politics (which I hate) I tend to be very pessimistic. As such, lately I've been trying to keep my interaction with it as minimal as I can manage, because people can only take so much pessimism, myself included. This was one of those topics I couldn't stay out of, though, especially seeing it was a subject where I actually agreed with Karx on something, and that doesn't happen often enough.

And if you really want to see how not to have a country, look around outside the US, point being, the US, overall is still the best...

And again, all very true, and I'm not denying this. The US is indeed still one of the best places to live (to be fair, I don't think places like Canada or England would be that bad) by far. My point is that given the trends I've been seeing pop up in this country, I'm not sure it can last for much longer if they continue like they have been. That's really my biggest point here.

We need to abolish the IRS and eliminate income taxes altogether.

Well, I don't know about abolishing the IRS (could work, as long as there's something to fill in the gap it'll leave) but I'm of the opinion that eliminating any taxes at the moment is a bad idea, simply because that's where the government gets their income, and if you take it away, how the heck are they supposed to pay off the many debts this country's got piled up? I know nobody likes paying taxes (although for me, it's the darn paperwork that burns my biscuits) but the saying that they are a necessary evil is completely true, because no country can exist for long without them. Of course, there are still going to be some methods of taxing that are more unfair and bad than others, and I won't deny that, meaning that any and all taxing needs to be done wisely and carefully. I'm not sure there are any problems with income tax, though, at least from my point of view I don't see any (feel free to enlighten me, though). Personally, I think a bigger issue is how the rich are taxed less for no real reason other than the fact that they ARE rich, and I think it needs to be changed so it's more balanced for all parties.

There is only one candidate who would work toward these changes, and that is Ron Paul.

Admittedly, I haven't really been keeping much of an eye on Ron Paul, but you've said enough in his support that I think I'll do some deeper digging to see where I stand on him. As I said before, at the moment I don't really have a candidate I'm rooting for, and I actually don't like that, so I'd be for finding a candidate that I could support. At the moment, though, I just know I most definitely won't be voting for Newt Gingrich, and while I used to support Mitt Romney, something about him now doesn't sit right with me now (I can't tell you exactly what though, that's the weird thing).

I don't know who you hang with but all...etc

Like I said, I don't like getting too deep into politics, more so in person with people than online, partly because when you're speaking aloud, you're more likely to get caught up in the heat of the moment and say something stupid and arrogant that you're just going to regret later, so, yeah.