Planet Descent

Community => Mess Hall => Topic started by: Babylon on March 08, 2011, 08:19:49 PM

Title: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Babylon on March 08, 2011, 08:19:49 PM
Thanks to the wonderful tool Radeon Pro (http://www.radeonpro.info/), those of you with Radeon graphics cards can force high-quality anti-aliasing in games.  While only so much can be done with D3's stubborn/aging Fusion Engine, adding AA definetly gives it a rather nice face-lift.  I imagine that this would also be true of D2X-XL (except I don't have D2 anymore :().  Along with AA, the program also uses a variety of texture handling enhancements (such as trilinear filtering and anisotropic filtering) which greatly helps the visual quality of textures at an angle/distance.  For people with Nvidia cards, I believe there is a program called nHancer (their site is currently down :\), which should do the same thing as the Radeon Pro program.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: karx-elf-erx on March 09, 2011, 12:13:43 AM
You can turn on AA directly in D2X-XL via the d2x.ini config file, and I think you can also enforce it via the Catalyst Control Center.

What AA cannot do (as can be seen on your screenshot #2) is to make coarse low resolution images (like the gun sprites) look much better.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Kaiaatzl on March 09, 2011, 06:42:03 AM
My graphics card supports AA, but it's not powerful enough to actually use it in any games.  Interestingly the only one that was ever playable with it turned on was D2X-XL (even though it was just barely playable).
The framerate in TrackMania gets so low with it turned on that I can't steer  ;D.  Though I do turn it on when I'm rendering a replay to a video.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: VANGUARD on March 09, 2011, 07:36:17 AM
i don't see any difference except for lines in certain places that say "with", and in screen shot 1
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: SaladBadger on March 09, 2011, 07:58:44 AM
Antialiasing is mostly good at cleaning up polygon edges -- in some games they tend to appear very pixelatted (known as the "Jaggies"), but antialiasing makes the edges look much better. Look by the top of the cockpit windows in the second screenshot (the physical mount of them), you should see it.

However, anisotropic filtering sounds really nice also -- I've always hated the distinct mipmap levels these older games tend to have, but also despise the "Moire" effect which can result when mipmapping is turned off.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Foil on March 09, 2011, 08:12:47 AM
There's no need for the Radeon Pro or nHancer apps.

I've always used AA for Descent3.  Just go into the setup (ATI Catalyst Control Center or NVidia Control Panel) and set AA to "always on".

It really smooths things out.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: VANGUARD on March 09, 2011, 09:51:30 AM
Okay. wasn't really zoomed in enough. Now I can see something different.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Babylon on March 09, 2011, 05:00:21 PM
I could never find an AA option in my Catalyst Control Center, even after I updated it :-[; so I guess that's why I was so excited about finding this.  I guess the other upside to using this is the versatility of the AA (there's a number of different tecniques you can pick from) and the anisotropic filtering.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Matthew on March 09, 2011, 07:11:15 PM
The problem with setting it to always on is that if you play more demanding games and you have a weaker computer, you might end up with FPS issues if you don't normally play with AA.

What happens if a game has an AA setting? Does it take preference? Or do the drivers say "Nah, we don't care what you think, you're just a lowly game."
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Babylon on March 09, 2011, 07:51:14 PM
I don't know about the Catalyst drivers, but Radeon Profile lets you create separate settings (called a "profile") for each game.  When you set up a profile's options, you can default settings to whatever the game prefers.

Not as though Descent 3 should be demanding in any way. :P
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Scyphi on March 10, 2011, 05:49:55 AM
Well, D3 used to be demanding at one time, but now...not so much. :P
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Kaiaatzl on March 10, 2011, 06:01:53 AM
:Remembers when Descent 3 was a slide show instead of a game -- needless to say level 4 was impossible:

The most bizzare part was how I got the game though -- I ordered it out of a book order I got in 2000 when I was still in elementary school :P.  The game was rated Teen.  I was 10.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Scyphi on March 10, 2011, 06:10:21 AM
Whoa! Where was your school getting those book orders, and why couldn't MY school get the same orders?

...course, when I got a book order in school, it was always to get books for me. Never really ever ordered anything else from them but that.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: -<WillyP>- on March 10, 2011, 06:12:03 AM
My kids started at age 4.  I don't see anything wrong with it, at least the single-player.  I wasn't too happy about a few of the audio taunts in multiplayer, though.  
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Foil on March 10, 2011, 08:30:10 AM
Regarding AA for ATI cards in D3:

In CCC, go into 3D settings, uncheck "Use Application Settings", set your desired AA (8X is probably just fine for D3).  Then you can set a "Preset" which is specific to an application (point it to D3's "main.exe").

Done!

[It's a similar thing with the NVidia Control Panel.  Basically, you do the same; change the AA setting, save it as a preset specifically for the game's .exe]
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Foil on March 10, 2011, 08:30:59 AM
P.S. My son is 2, and likes to sit up on my lap and watch a game of D3 for a few minutes.  "Daddy, get that wo-bot!"  :D
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Matthew on March 10, 2011, 07:42:48 PM
Sounds like me when I was little, Foil :)

You can always disable audio taunts. I generally do anyway, and I've already heard every word under the sun :P
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Sapphirus on March 10, 2011, 09:57:57 PM
X2
except that my dad was playing WingCommander (ah the good times)

As for Audio Taunts, I don't use them anymore, so I also disabled them

and as for the Anti Aliasing, I might give that a try
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Scyphi on March 11, 2011, 06:22:03 AM
I remember Techpro playing Descent as far back as when I was five, which I remember always sitting and avidly watching him play, and was probably doing it from an even younger age (though it couldn't have been by much). My little bro also first started playing the game when he was three, and got the hang of it surprisingly fast. As for me, despite such early exposure to the game, I didn't start playing it myself until I was in my teens.

As for audio taunts, thankfully for us, Techpro cleaned out all of the "unwanted" audio taunts well before any of us children even knew D3 had 'em. Not that we make that much use of them, anyway. They're actually kind of distracting from the gameplay.  :-\
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: VANGUARD on March 11, 2011, 07:35:38 AM
As for audio taunts, thankfully for us, Techpro cleaned out all of the "unwanted" audio taunts well before any of us children even knew D3 had 'em. Not that we make that much use of them, anyway. They're actually kind of distracting from the gameplay.  :-\

This is why I never used audio taunts. They're too distracting and in my opinion, it just doesn't give me that Descent feeling.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Kaiaatzl on March 11, 2011, 01:54:54 PM
I use them in some cases -- I like to give some of my (hundreds of) pilots a theme (the ones that are characters), and taunts (audio taunts and taunt macros) can really help describe their "personality".
I made all of The N.I.P's taunt macros into the names of scheme cards from Magic's Archenemy game type.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: SaladBadger on March 11, 2011, 05:19:15 PM
the only taunt I ever liked was my strifeguy "nope" taunt, because it actually was a taunt and a quite silly one at that.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: VANGUARD on March 13, 2011, 10:29:56 AM
I think if one started with audio taunts, it may be nice. For me, I have played it for years without it, so hearing it makes it very unnatural.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: TechPro on March 13, 2011, 11:51:12 AM
I use audio taunts just for fun.  My kids use the audio taunts the same way.  The taunts serve just one purpose... fun.  Nothing more.  Which is why they are annoying to some, and essential to others.  It all depends on if you want to be laughing while playing ... or deadly serious.

I'll go for laughing every time ... otherwise it's not a 'game'.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: VANGUARD on March 13, 2011, 12:20:23 PM
my laughs are more like "on the other side, grabbed the flag and person on other team doesn't see me behind them as they fly towards my home base." or "smart missile after me, and I run behind my own teammate and see them die from it."

Funny moments.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Foil on March 14, 2011, 06:40:18 AM
"on the other side, grabbed the flag and person on other team doesn't see me behind them as they fly towards my home base."

I love doing that.  8)
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: VANGUARD on March 14, 2011, 11:29:23 AM
happened once with me. I had to follow a magnum to the half way point and then went as fast as I could when he went in the center area of varicose veins.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: -<WillyP>- on March 14, 2011, 12:24:04 PM
uh yea, I'd be too busy trying to shoot him for subtleties like that!  ;)
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Foil on March 14, 2011, 12:49:03 PM
Yep, that's the thing.  If I'm running the flag (as I often do, I LOVE being a CTF flag-runner), I have to remind myself not to shoot at the enemy if it would give away my position. 

It doesn't work against experienced players who keep an eye on their rearview, but I've made a number of runs by pausing a moment, and then following the enemy out of their own base.  8)
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Shroudeye on March 15, 2011, 12:51:53 AM
I once made a flag-run in Varicose Veins against a tough opponent-I simply made a run for it, in a Pyro, and he(she?) was pursuing me with a Phoenix... and firing Mass Driver! It WAS a frantic run, but I SCORED!!!

And that was the only score we got...
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: VANGUARD on March 15, 2011, 01:27:17 PM
nice  8)

I think tricording is the trick. I can be in a phoenix and a magnum still can go faster than me, because I never learned tri-cording.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: -<WillyP>- on March 15, 2011, 01:32:15 PM
It does take some practice to cord smoothly.  Not much to doing it, doing it right is another story!  ;)
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Foil on March 15, 2011, 01:36:54 PM
Exactly.

----------

P.S. It's official, this thread has been derailed.  8)
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Shroudeye on March 15, 2011, 03:42:56 PM
Yea, courtesy of PD forums, hehe :D

Its funny actually, the topic started from Anti-Aliasing and somehow it ended up about CTF matches... I mean, how the ?!!?!

And heya, its my 100th post, I'm gold!!
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: SaladBadger on March 15, 2011, 04:06:12 PM
I'm gold!!
Well then, It appears I must mine you to continue the expansion of my great wealth.

(http://basementnet.us/ryan/goldmine.png)
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Ronin RedFox on March 15, 2011, 07:36:14 PM
You already have 62 apples, why would you need to be wealthier?  :P
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: SaladBadger on March 16, 2011, 07:48:32 AM
The apples were the work of InvEdit (I took the screenshot during an experiment on my first world (but all of my gold on my first world is legitly mined!)), but I once found two golden apples in a row. heh.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Kaiaatzl on March 16, 2011, 09:39:17 AM
By the way, no offense to people who like it but I hate Veins.
It's boring...

I like Halcyon CTF though.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Scyphi on March 16, 2011, 11:14:41 AM
Veins has nice architecture, but when people play it as much as they do online, it does get old after awhile.

I'm one to talk though, I do next to none online play. :P
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Foil on March 16, 2011, 11:34:56 AM
I love any CTF level!!

V-Veins is great for those long epic difficult coordinated flag-runs, where teamplay is critical.

Halcyon is great for fast frantic action, with quick scores and even quicker momentum changes.

Bada Bing is great for "the hunt", with lots of hiding spots and interwined places to catch flag-carriers.

Worlds Apart is great for run-n-gun action and zany massacres at the choke points on either end.

Canyon Siege is great for tactical flag-scores where timing and the route you take in and out of the base makes all the difference.

Polaris is great for huge CTF games with lots of players, simply because of its size and variety.

Eleldee 1.1 is great for, well... design.  Most beautiful CTF level I've ever seen.

The Hyperspace levels are great, simply because they bring a whole new dimension (space!) to CTF gameplay.

Glasshouse 1.1 is probably the most well-balanced CTF level out there.  It's perfect.

... Can you tell I'm a CTF-junkie?  :D :P
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: VANGUARD on March 16, 2011, 11:42:32 AM
that's fine. I only played CTF myself. never really cared for anything else.

I liked Halcyon as well. I could play both, or that hyperspace map, or whatever that was called again.


It's like Black Ops' zombie maps. I could play that theater one, could play "five" and could play the new one that came out recently. It all depends on my mood.

Oh yeah, worlds apart can be fun at times, depending on if I am defending or not.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Kaiaatzl on March 16, 2011, 12:23:08 PM
Foil pointed out the exact reason I hate Veins -- at least when I've been there the teams are completely uncoordinated (probably because they're so big) and each player is effectively playing for themselves.

The most fun CTF games I've played had 4 players -- only 2 players on each team which encouraged teamwork (that's the fun part of it for me).  Most of those games were also in Halcyon (but not all).
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: VANGUARD on March 16, 2011, 01:27:25 PM
I think the worse is 1 vs 2. 2 vs 3 isn't bad, or 3 vs 4, etc etc, but 1 vs 2 is just too much a pain. The only way it may work is if the one player is better than the other two. but if they both get the flag, that means the guy/gal has to shoot the flag carrier, and the other pilot (assuming he/she is close as well), and if not, the pilot may grab the flag as soon as the other player gets it back.

I'm sure we have all been there. I have been.  ::)
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Foil on March 16, 2011, 01:47:05 PM
If it's 1 vs. 2, I usually volunteer to be the solo player.  Much more difficult that way, but it's fun, especially on those rare occasions that I can get a score against the other two.  8)
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Kaiaatzl on March 18, 2011, 07:34:30 AM
You're also probably better than a lot of players now.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: VANGUARD on March 18, 2011, 08:00:28 AM
If I recall correctly, I think foil is. I haven't played online for so long. I just never have time to do it, and if I do, I am busy with some other game.
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Kaiaatzl on March 18, 2011, 08:47:08 AM
I try to make time for it but I can't do as much as I used to... three games a week is the most I can ever do now, though I may be able to do a little more soon.  And I can almost never make the WNFC anymore (WNFC used to be one of the main reasons I kept playing).

I did play a game in Veins once when Foil was there (I only played it because it was the only server up), though I can't remember if he was on my team or the other team... regardless he was better than almost anyone else in the game.
And he kept getting annoyed at me and Hunter for talking instead of playing...
Title: Re: Descent with Anti-Aliasing on ATI cards
Post by: Foil on March 18, 2011, 09:07:14 AM
If Hunter was playing, I couldn't have been a top player; that guy is great, even at his 200+ms latency.  There are plenty of others who are better than I, too.  :)

In any case, I haven't been able to play that often lately, either.  Life just has a way of shifting one's priorities.