Topic: MLK

[DarkWing]

I kept checking for the mail. I guess it being MLK day, there is no mail

Do-h! Guess I didn't catch that.  Right you are.

[Kaiaatzl]

cynic? No way. Realistic.

Cliche!
I could have bet money on you saying that if there was anyone to bet with .

Seriously I don't think anyone is realistic.  We all just think we are.

[karx-elf-erx]

I think that at the age of 50 I have seen a bit more than you. Blissful ignorance is a privilege of youth.

[Kaiaatzl]

But once you're a certain age, you can't really be wise beyond your years anymore.

If you say something that sounds wise when you're 20, you impress a lot more people than if you're 70.

My point is ... umm ... I guess it isn't.

[karx-elf-erx]

You should really stop your big talking, cheap interpretations and stereotype use of words you haven't really understood (like "cynic").

Cynical has something to do with being negative without seeing or offering an alternative, which I did not.

[Kaiaatzl]

Oh fine... you could let me win the debate sometimes you know .  But I know when I'm beaten.  One of these days I won't be.
I'll need a dictionary though... :goes off to the bookstore:

And yeah I was teasing you.  In case you couldn't tell, you weren't supposed to take it seriously.

[Matthew]

Cynical has something to do with being negative without seeing or offering an alternative, which I did not.

Saying "Somebody should so something" is hardly offering an alternative.

[DarkWing]

You should really stop your big talking, cheap interpretations and stereotype use of words you haven't really understood (like "cynic").

Cynical has something to do with being negative without seeing or offering an alternative, which I did not.

Nope, sorry.  That is not the right answer.  Being "Cynical" has absolutely nothing to do with showing (or not showing) an alternative.  Look up 'cynical'

Instead, 'cynical' is simply an state of attitude.  IMO someone who is cynical usually tends to have a somewhat negative attitude and also usually claims that they are not being cynical or negative but is instead being something else altogether.  Cynical persons hardly ever admit to being that way because they usually don't realize that they are.

TechPro suggested we all try to see how each of us (all of us individually) could contribute to making things better.  Karx suggested TechPro should do that himself (as if TechPro didn't already know that and might already be doing that) and the way Karx said it seemed to imply that he (Karx) doesn't have to or need to.  Karx didn't say that, but his replies suggest that, and that kind of suggestion is often understood by others as being kind of arrogant, even though Karx may not be arrogant at all.

Is Karx cynical? A realist? Arrogant?  Does it matter?  -- Probably not.

Perhaps he really is trying to state the reality.  I say none of us (including those not in the U.S.) have to put up with the "reality" and can instead work to change that "reality" to a better place.

[karx-elf-erx]

So you believe that from my saying "there is no good in people" (@ IHateHackers: which I continued stating that only God can put that, or rather be that, inside people - there you have your alternative. @DarkWing: I actually suggested nothing of what you claim there; see subtle "irony", below) you can tell that I am a cynic? Btw, I disagree with the definition of cynical linked to. A cynic doesn't believe there is anything good. I should probably have written "without seeing a *positive* alternative".

God must be a hell of a cynic then, because that is what he states in his word (in which I believe).

I see that you are having as much of a problem understanding this term as you have distinguishing between irony and sarcasm.

This is thoughtless to the extent of being moronic. Nobody who really knows me would even dream of saying something that stupid about me.

I should stop arguing with half-baked wiseguys who believe they know it all (the kind of hybris that is another hallmark of youth).

[-<WillyP>-]

A cynic doesn't believe there is anything good.

This is not true at all. A cynical person is usually mistrusting of others motives, but it doesn't mean he/she won't see the good when it is shown, it is just they don't expect to see the good, and often confuse the good as bad. Even the most cynical person will occasionally say, 'well i guess there was some good in him after all'. A cynical person on the receiving end of random acts of kindness will wonder what it will cost him later. An example, I once went to the store and bought groceries, and my debit card wouldn't work for some reason, the next person in line paid for my groceries. A cynical person might envision all sorts of motivation scenarios, perhaps that random stranger is trying to pick me up or will try to scam me later, or maybe his check will bounce and he'll sue me. But in the end I mailed him a check with a nice thank-you note and that was the end of it. Even the most cynical person would think 'hmph! well I guess there are one or two good people left in the world' because a cynical person generally does not believe there is no good in the world, it just takes more convincing than most people.

[karx-elf-erx]

There is at least quite some room for interpretation here. A cynic assumes a general tendency of negativity - not withstanding occasional contradictory experiences. These are rather anomalies in the general stream of failure and decline. A cynic doesn't really expect any good to happen, and if it does, it is only a fleeting occurence. For me cynism also has a notion of contempt.

[Matthew]

Simply stating an alternative way in which good would exist in people is not exactly my idea of an alternative, because just "being good" doesn't change anything.

[NUMBERZero]

Everyone reread the second paragraph of the original post.

Karx, read what your response was.

How could you not expect to start a flame war when you are touching on a lot of people's home land and using negative words? It generates negative attitudes.

"maul each other/utter disregard of the good of your nation/willing to sacrifice it/driving it against the wall/reckless"
All negative words and images at face value.


And this is keeping it simple.

[-<WillyP>-]

Karx, thank you for agreeing with me. I knew there was some good in you. In spite of your very cynical outlook.

As far as the problems with the US, Karx is an outsider who hasn't a clue about American politics. So forgive him for seeing it the way he does, he just doesn't understand the freedom we take for granted.

[Scyphi]

Mm, you have a point, WillyP, but as already said before, Karx isn't exaggerating as much as we'd all like to believe. Things are getting to be just about as bad as he says.

And as a reminder to everyone, I am 100% American, so this isn't some outsider looking in and saying what he thinks he sees.

I will state that Karx could work on his...tactics, for bringing up this issue and his continued show of support for it, but given how I know Karx's usual style of arguing typically goes, he's doing a better-than-usual job at it. So credit where credit's due.

But we have gotten terribly off-topic here, no longer even in the same ballpark that Techpro originally set out (which is why I suspect he has been oddly absent from the discussion) and so I say, if we can't get back to the topic, we either need to put an end to this thread, or move the conversation elsewhere.

Though personally, I can only take so much of this flaming, so I vote for the former.