Topic: Crowd-source level building

[-<WillyP>-]

Ok, let's see what I can figure out for the next poll... Electricity is flickering so I might not get to this tonight.

Scyphi's Idea

See, I was replaying D1 level 13 not that long ago, and I just randomly got to thinking about how it'd be cool to rebuild the level in D3, but it had been left in ruins after it's reactor had blown. Kind of like that brief spot in D3 lvl 10 (?) that briefly showed D1 lvl 1's ruins, but bigger, showing more of the level in navigable ruins. Shortly thereafter I got the idea that maybe the virus had reinfected the mine for reasons unknown and hotwired a replacement reactor (I'm guessing the bots built it from scratch) in to power as much of the mine's ruins as possible, to possibly start rebuilding it, but their way, possibly creating structures reminiscent of D3 Merc Lvl 4, maybe even complete with some of those hive bots. I'd personally think this would be cool, because you'd be going down these ruined tunnels of an old D1 mine (which is cool in of itself), then suddenly turn right and BAM! Suddenly you find yourself in the middle of Merc. Lvl 4. Cool

More details on demand, if anybody's interested.

Schyphi's Other Idea:

You know what I always wanted to? Build a level that starts you at one end of it with the goal to escape, but as you go along, the level is slowly filling up with lava (like the lava pits in Dravis's Sanctuary). If you aren't quick enough, you get trapped and die in the flooding lava.

Atan's Idea:

Well I hope I can say it a little better this time.
I had the idea about a level-type which would not be the same every time you start it. (would fit best to Anarchy, but will do in SP too)
In a real game you could start at the moment a reactor (or similar) is destroyed, all should hurry to the exit and leave. Nice fights if only the first one could escape and earn points for this.
But if you would have played such kind of level often, well, every body would know the way to fly out.
Now the idea behind: I thought it would be nice if no one would know how he should move trough the level to leave 'this! time'.
To check this out I made this test-level and I thought it would be a good idea to simulate the moving without ending the level and to start again always.
With the start-key you produce a random way, you simulate the moment this event should begin with it. It could be the level start or whenever it would be triggered.
Now You can try to fly to the end-switch, which just a test to open all ways again. This switch is only a placeholder for a possible exit, no real meaning in this level.
If you fly to start now, you can produce a new way towards the end again.
You possible may just hit that 'start-key' again and again an look which block opens..
All inside this level is just done for  test proposes.
There is nothing real usable in this level, it's just a simulation to see how it could work to randomly changing the path to the exit.
Sorry if I confused you with this!
 

Tech Pro's Idea:

Hey, I got an idea.... (it's rare, but it happens)

If we can make use of the random changing path approach, we could make a level (for SP of MP usage) where there is a central room with passages to an outer area (perhaps and area up and an area down, or a multiple combination) and because of the randomly changing path you (the pilot) can never be completely sure of the path you need to take ... because it keeps changing.

A multi-player level like that would be awesome fun because as you run to or from your goal, your path is going to change without you knowing the precise change.  You get be running with your enemy in hot pursuit, turn a corner to find that path is blocked, or your enemy thinks he's got your cornered, and surprise! A way is clear....

On DescenBB.net, "sdfgeoff" posted some Pyro renderings, and among the renderings he made a rendering of the Star trek: Deep Space Nine space station with a Pyro approaching it. Click here to see his post with the image. ... It occurs to me that a level shape similar to that station would work VERY well for that kind of game play.

It sounds like a lot of fun to me.

Vanguard's Idea:

I read some ideas, thinking some of my own. I think overall, it may be a blend of what some have suggested.
This idea is like "Five" on Black Ops: Zombies.

The idea of three sections I think would be nice. Like "five", you have the tables and chairs, hall ways, places blocked off. second section is "war room", third is "labs".
not saying we do that for this, but like what was originally talked about.
Having three sections. defeat one, move to the second. Of course, in "Five", you can go back to any area you've already been in.

Sort of in a nutshell:

1. Spawn in a room where you can get powerups. This could be separated by each pilot or team.
2. Leave room (can't return) and begin the 1st of 3 stages. Be nice if each one had something slgihtly different, like "Five". The decor, layout, etc are different in "Five".

I suppose a team like game would be hard though. Okay, why I just thought of this, I don't know. but I did, and I'm going to tel you guys even if this is not possible, and even STUPID.

Have two teams, two maps, both basically the same. and see how fast the team can get to the end and win basically. They may have to trigger something to activate something else, etc..
May not work as well when you keep playing the game, and get use to it more. maybe add robots.
It's probably DUMB, I don't know. I am just throwing out what I can. I wish I could help on a map, or music, or new decal, but I am so horrible with that.
I'm impressed with my avatar, that should tell you how bad I am with making music or decal, etc..

Babylon's Idea:

It becomes more of an arena-styled multiplayer at that point.  If the level is built like a regular mine would be, it will take too long / be too confusing for players to find one another; even more so when there's not a way to see / track who's carrying what.

That aside, perhaps there could be a time limit until the entire level is destroyed by some cataclysmic event (persay, in five minutes the cavern will flood), and the competition is for an (potentially) infinite supply of something (persay, air capsules).  Robots would still drop mission critical items (e.g. air capsules) at random (the higher the difficulty of bot, the higher the rate/number of drops) and of course you could still plunder other players.  Players would respawn back at the beginning, so as to avoid initial confusion as to who still possesses the mission critical items (e.g. air capsules); the beginning area itself should be inaccessible once left.  When the time limit expires the level ends, and the player with the highest amount of mission critical items (e.g. air capsules) wins.

Alternately, you could work in the exit strategy and have the exit (or safe house) open 60 seconds before the time limit expires and have all robot matcens shut down, leading to some serious last minute brawling...

WillyP's Idea:

I have some ideas for a D3 Multiplayer, robo anarchy that would play kinda like a string of d1/2 levels.  Players would start out at one end of the level and have to fight hoards of bots and turrets, as well as each other, and then destroy a reactor.  This would be in a small section of the level.  Destroying the reactor would open the next section, and fill the first section with a radioactive, toxic fog.  So the players would move from one section to the next, but still respawn in the first.  There would be maybe three sections like this, with the last reactor forcing the player to find an exit, ending the level.

Further clarification:
The way I envisioned it, players would start out in an area, let's call it blue.  All the players spawn in blue.  At the other end of blue, there is a blue reactor. Players fight their way through blue, battling bots and each other for the honor, and maybe some points, of destroying blue reactor.
Once Blue reactor is destroyed, a door to area yellow opens, and blue begins to flood with a blue radioactive fog.  The fog does some damage to any ship in blue area.  So all the players move to yellow, and repeat the scenario with tougher bots and a more well protected reactor.  Players still spawn in blue area, and must move quickly to yellow.

After the yellow reactor succumbs, again the area is flooded with radio active fog, this time yellow, a door opens and now players move to red area.  Players still re-spawn in blue area and must now battle through blue area and yellow area to rejoin the battle.

Conquering the red reactor opens an emergency escape route, a red fog forms, and the players fight to escape and the level ends.

I don't believe my idea needs any mod other than robo-anarchy.  It only needs to trigger doors, fog and room-damage when a reactor is blown, and end the level when a player reaches the end of the escape tunnel.  I believe that is all doable in any gametype.  But I could be wrong.

The damage done in each area would be slight, just enough to encourage players to move along.  Presumably most of the bots would be destroyed by then anyway.  But maybe spawn points could be turned on for only the area currently at play, not sure about that.

Shroudeye's Idea, named 'Our Game':

Also, if you like, I came up with an idea of a sorts after watching the movie "Sanctum", that may be interesting... Here it goes:

The player (OR group of players) gets stuck down in an unexplored cavern system, after a teleporter failure took the transporter offline and damaged their ship's systems. Their objective is simply to repair the teleporter system, by searching for resources in the tunnels and get the hell out of there before their oxygen runs out... And they would have to fight a horde of bots and environmental hazards along the way...

I was preparing to test this, but I'd like to hear your comments as well...

Further:
Okay, there is our game, finalized:

-Players are TRAPPED in the cavern system. Only way out is the teleporter, which activates with a substance.
-The substance is highly volatile, which means activating the teleporter will trigger a massive meltdown that will destroy the entire cavern system.
-There are bots present, which extract the substance for themselves they are not happy by the presence of the players.
-There is just enough substance for ONE ship. Who goes FIRST, is the LAST.

Looks like a hectic "Power Struggle"?

By the way, I'm calling this "our game", cuz as I read, anyone on this site can participate in the project?

And more further:
I was thinking that those substances can be picked up like powerups... but your idea about getting them from the bots sounds better, so we got our source.

About the "hiding" players with powerups... well, we said that the substance is "highly volatile", so the player who got substance on board can take some damage... and the more substance the player has/the more it damages. An alternative to this, the substance can simply evaporate over time instead of damaging (May be better for a little less hectic game for new ones). So if the player waits too long he/she loses valuable resources or gets destroyed...

Lastly, what happens if a player destroys a "carrier": The substance can simply be destroyed (again its "volatile" nature helps), so the players must go hunting for substance... That also means that there are a "lot" more substance instead of "just enough"... Well, that is an easy change, as the teleporter gets destroyed with a huge blast that devours all the players except the "Survivor"!

One thing remains then... what happens if two players with sufficient substance (8 units or not, it depends on the map's size) teleports at the same time?

A. It can be allowed so players win the game "tied"
or
B. The maximum "alive" bots for an instance which carries the substance can be limited, so having 2 or more players carrying it becomes a little difficult...

And there are some screen shots here:http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?topic=639.msg8304#msg8304

WillyP's Other Idea, Named 'TITANIUM':

The idea of zoned playing, as you call it, when applied to SP is not much different from the standard get the keys blow he reactor formula.  I like your idea of having to find parts to repair something.  The twist is having the timer run from level-start.  Perhaps the parts location could somehow be randomized, that might extend the replay value a bit.

Anyway, here is another idea for a multiplayer level, I started on this years ago and couldn't get the script to work correctly: TITANIUM.  Unfortunately this game would pretty much require a large number of players in the game to be effective.  I'm thinking at least 5 on each team.
From TITANIUM:
Following a suggestion made by Enzo 03 in a post on PD, Titanium has reactors that must be enabled to win the game. I decided on seven reactors for each team, two teams. To enable a reactor, a player must find a Reactor Fuse and insert it into a fuse holder located in his team's base.
  Ten fuses will be located in the level. When your ship contacts a fuse, it will attach to the rear of your ship. Another player may steal the fuse from you by contacting the fuse you are carrying. If your ship is destroyed, the fuse will break free and float freely until another player picks it up. The fuse is a non-destructible object, but can be knocked about by weapons, unless it is attached to a ship or fuse holder.
  If you make it back to your base with the fuse, place it in the fuse holder to bring one reactor online.
  Once a fuse is placed in a fuse holder, it could be stolen by another player. You will have to defend your fuses!
  When all seven of one teams reactors have been activated, a timer will start. All seven reactors must remain operational during this time to win the game!
Now, it also has occurred to me this game could also be done in Robo-Titanium, by having the keys carried by robots.  This would give some challenge to players who are in the level alone, either online or singleplayer, or with just a few players present.

Ok, is that it?

[(LL)Atan]

Sorry, I think it's too early to count in my idea for now.
I'm currently building a new test level without using objects to block the way(s) and I do not know if that will work as I want it later.






 

[Scyphi]

Ok, is that it?

Well, unless you've decided not to present it as an idea after all, I do believe you forgot your own idea that got the thread going in the first place.

[Shroudeye]

Also, you haven't added my idea there??

[-<WillyP>-]

Ok, I'll add some more.  I'm going to keep them in the one post to keep them organized.  If I haven't added yours by the end of the day, please post a link to the post where you outlined you idea.

[Shroudeye]

Better yet, here is my original SP idea, posted Feb. 10 2011:

...The player (OR group of players) gets stuck down in an unexplored cavern system, after a teleporter failure took the transporter offline and damaged their ship's systems. Their objective is simply to repair the teleporter system, by searching for resources in the tunnels and get the hell out of there before their oxygen runs out... And they would have to fight a horde of bots and environmental hazards along the way...

[-<WillyP>-]

Your is now added, Shroudeye.  I am still going back over the thread to see what ideas have been posted.  But a lot of the ideas presented by one member are the added and expanded on by other members, so I am just trying to get the basic ideas.  Atan, I'll leave your idea in for now, we can always take it out later if it doesn't work. 

Also if anybody feels a variation on Idea should be posted, speak up, we can call it like 'Someone's Variation of Somebody's Idea'.

[-<WillyP>-]

I'm kinda picturing Scyphi's idea like this:  You start in the classic D1 level 1, but it is obviously wrecked.  As you progress the level, you notice an alien presence... subtle at first, but grows more obvious as you go.  Kinda like in the movie 'Aliens'.  Creepy!  And kinda dark, because the mines lights are all destroyed, but not too dark, cause totally dark levels suck. Maybe the alien infestation has some glowing crystals or something. There aren't any keys, the doors are all blown apart. Then you get to where the reactor should be and there is a hole in the floor, or wall, or maybe both, and you go through.  Beyond there is alien construction.  You negotiate your way through the Alien part of the mine to the reactor, which you find is built from pieces of broken bots and other equipment the aliens had salvaged from the old mine.

We could incorporate some of Atan's idea of the changing path through the mine, too, as the alien infection could be somewhat organic in nature, and be moving and changing as the game progresses.

[Shroudeye]

Does it have to be the Lunar Outpost? I think the D1 L1 is way overused already. I was wandering thru those old D1 levels, and some of them are REALLY dark and creepy...

Schypi's offer, the Level 13 for example, is a good, vertical level...

I'm also against "totally dark" levels, the lights&shadows are what gives a level its character, after all... And playing a level which is just "dark" is just a "little" different from playing in an unprocessed, test level without lightmaps, IMO.

[-<WillyP>-]

No, an unproccesed level without lightmaps is full bright.  You can see everything, in a fully dark level you can't see anything.

It's one thing to pass through a few areas which are extremely dark, it's another to play a whole level in total darkness, is my point.  But without lightmaps, there is no darkness at all.

But that just gave me another idea... Thinking about Atans idea of changing the level... I wonder if there is any possibility of selecting lightmaps at level start?  What if the one path for the player was lit, other paths would be fully dark?  Well, just a thought, anyway.  Well, there is some manipulation of lighting through DALLAS, though I haven't played with it enough to know if you could guide the player on certain paths by using light/ dark areas. Interesting thought, don't you think?  Instead of completly barring a player from exploring other paths by use of a face or locked door, discourage him by making one path so dark it would be difficult to proceed, while lighting other paths.  And choose different paths at random on level-start.

[Shroudeye]

No, an unproccesed level without lightmaps is full bright.  You can see everything, in a fully dark level you can't see anything.

I know that WillyP . My point is, they BOTH look "simple", in a bad way, at least TO ME... they appear like the designer simply didn't gave enough time and patience to the lights of the level in their design process...

...Instead of completly barring a player from exploring other paths by use of a face or locked door, discourage him by making one path so dark it would be difficult to proceed, while lighting other paths...

Well, sounds fine, but the player is equipped with a headlight already for that, it won't be as hard...unless modding the headlight itself?*cough*

On the other hand, I'm not that far at Dallas, but if it is possible to create "delta lights" like in D2, it would be awesome by itself...

[Kaiaatzl]

You mean flickering lights?  Yes that is possible, even I've done it (several times, and I've only ever finished 3 levels for D3).

[Scyphi]

Yeah, I'm with Shroudeye, I don't think D1 lvl1 is a good idea, because A: it's been done before, and B: it's too small. You'd only get to explore a small portion of the ruined mine. The rest would be of alien construction, and then it'd be unbalanced between the two themes. The reason I picked lvl 13 is because it's one of my favorites, and because I felt it'd work great for this.

Also, absolutely no to the totally-dark/unprocessed lighting. It just doesn't work like you'd think it would in D3, and just comes across as annoying. This idea has the potential of some really cool lighting.

Yes to the flickering lights, please.

Seeing that this idea is in the lead for the moment, I'll provide some of those more "details on demand." See, the way I was picturing it was that the story behind it is that after the events of D3, the CED and all of them are going out cleaning up after the PTMC and the virus, clearing out the infected mines with a tweaked anti-virus Red Acropolis put together, and along the way, discover that this one particular mine had, for reasons unknown, been reactivated and infected robot activity could be detected within, and the anti-virus, also for reasons unknown, wasn't working. It seemed the mine had been reinfected with a new strain of the virus, one different from the modified one Dravis had harnessed. So it is decided this particular mine is just going to have to be taken care of the ol' fashioned way, by sending someone in there and destroy the apparently rebuilt or reactivated (in the briefing you're given, it's unclear which) reactor, hopefully taking the mine and all within with it. I was thinking of having Red Acropolis be the ones supporting this mission, with the CED being busy with other affairs, but I suppose that's not a must.

Anyway, I was picturing the level starting out with you on the surface, and having to clear out a few infected robot defenses, as well as a robot matcen located on the surface that you use a bomb to destroy (or deactivate, whichever is more practical) before you can actually enter the mine via the original entrance. Now, up until now, you've only been given vague clues as to what mine this is, hopefully to not give the player any real confirmation of what d1 level it's supposed to be...until you actually enter the mine. Inside, the mine is surprisingly intact (I estimate roughly half. The rest was either incinerated in the original blast, caved in, or as we soon discover, rebuilt in completely different design) but definitely seen better days. Some doors work, while others do not. The usual locked doors are there along with their keys, but it is not imparative that you even use these doors, as you'll later discover ways around them. There is power in the mine, and thereby lights, but it's very limited to the ruined portions of the mine, and all of the original energy centers are flickering, non-functioning, wreaks. Any of the level's original robot generators are larger and "overrun" with robots. Robots are composed of both beat and battered D1 robots and newer, more functional D3 robots, at least until you enter the newer alien portions.

Speaking of which, these portions are sealed off behind an oddly locked door that wasn't locked in the original level. You have to find a means of unlocking it to continue. Once through the door it's an abrupt transition from that mine into, and I absolutely must insist upon this, a very D3 Merc lvl 4 alien environment. It mirrors it in many ways, but we can take that theme and improve upon it. It'll be composed of those alien robots from the same level, but again, improvements can be made, especially seeing that said level is not always a favorite. I just insist on the theme, and thus the tie to the level, be preserved. Now these tunnels  go whether the old mine no longer can. Occasionally, it'll lead to surviving portions of the mine that have since been cut off from access that you can poke around in, maybe find powerups and the such.

What are the aliens up to? Well, that's a matter that can be determined along the way. I was personally thinking that maybe they were secretly building a big boss robot (maybe like the one in D2 lvl 24?) that isn't functional yet, but would be soon, thus providing even more cause to blow the mine. But that's just my idea, I suppose that detail is not set in stone.

Now, as already stated, the ultimate objective is to destroy the revived reactor, which is located in the original, but very blasted and scorched reactor room of the level, with a new, D1 style, reactor (but as WillyP suggested before, it could be modified slightly to have a bit more "teeth") But when you enter the room, the reactor is sealed behind a forcefield, and you have to combat an alien queen robot (again, similar to D3 Merc lvl 4 alien queen, but modifications can be made if so wanted) at least until the robot is damaged enough that it goes to recharge. In doing so, the power drain lowers the reactor's forcefield, exposing it for attack, and attack you do, until the alien queen's recharged and the forcefield goes back up and the process is repeated. This goes back and forth several times until you blow the reactor, and that causes the self-destruct to kick in and blow the mine, and you escape.

A fun idea I had at this point is that when the reactor's blown, the classic "self-destruct sequence activated" alarms are activated...except they're bugged; the computer's voice is distorted, and maybe the countdown counter is busted and non-operational (giving you no real idea how much time you have left).

Now that I've said all of that, seeing some of these other ideas that had popped up, I think we can merge some of them with this. Like Atan's changing paths idea for the alien areas, and maybe instead of an exit tunnel, we use a teleporter instead, playing into Shroudeye's idea, and so forth, so there is some flexibility in this idea.

And sorry if I seem adamant about how this idea, if it's done, be done, but I just have a very vivid image in my head of how it should look, and I don't want to bend and change it too much, as it feels like a betrayal to the idea. Hopefully you all understand this.

[Shroudeye]

Actually, I was referring to breakable lights and lights that change color; not flickering/strobing ones
And of course, we gonna use them :D

@Schypi:
I'd say, you got a solid idea... good writing. Now, how about some sketches?

I have a small offer for the start, a minor suggestion if you like... What if we tell the player that only a "new strain of virus" have been detected at a region of Europa, and tell the player to go and find the source? The mission starts as a recon mission, where the player is forced to engage infected bots... Soon after a few skirmishes, the player detects that the infected robots are concentrated near a wreckage of sorts, which appears to be an old docking port... that turns out to be leading into the good ol' Europa Mining Colony!

[-<WillyP>-]

Scyphi, you have given a very thorough description of you idea, thank you!  Personally I wouldn't change a thing, but of course as we proceed others may put forth some ideas and even request a vote on some things. Anyone care to sketch this out? Although there is still some time on this vote, I think it would be worthwhile to see some sketches.

Lights can flicker in D3, and you IIRC you can turn off the lights for a room in D3 also.  But when you turn off the lights, it turns off all the lighting in the room, there is no light blending or spillover from other rooms.  So, turning off the lights in one room has to be done carefully, or you do get an odd effect.