Topic: Crowd-source level building

[-<WillyP>-]

Maybe we should vote for ideas, instead of gametype?

[Shroudeye]

Yeah, it would be better... and yes, the singleplayer missions are both support Co-Op and Robo-Anarchy, so we got 3 modes in just one mission... It just depends on the gamestyle set by server, the player(s) either help each other... or kill each other!!!

[Kaiaatzl]

As for robo-anarchy, maybe there should be some way to close off parts of the level in that gametype so that it's not too big for the players, but can be large in singleplayer.  I'm not sure how you would do that, I did have an idea a while ago for a level that would adjust its size based on the number of players.

[TechPro]

As for robo-anarchy, maybe there should be some way to close off parts of the level in that gametype so that it's not too big for the players, but can be large in singleplayer.  I'm not sure how you would do that, I did have an idea a while ago for a level that would adjust its size based on the number of players.

I suspect that's not hard (but I'm not familiar with the coding to do it) because all you need are Single Player goals/objectives which when triggered open access to the additional areas.  That way, when NOT playing in SP mode, you are unable to get into those areas.

The same thing happens in some of the Mercenary levels because some allow other game play modes but are not coded for it, making them impossible to do in anything but SP mode.

So just make it fun either way.

[(LL)Atan]

I would like to show you my first attempt belong to my -self modifying- level idea.
It's just to show- one way- howto possible doing that.

No bots inside, no place to fight inside, it's just a simple cube design which I found helpful to play around with that idea for the first time.
I couldn't test it online so I can't say if it would really work. Maybe someone could help out here? (Willy, maybe with your home net?)

I inserted 4 player starts. Near them there is a simulated reactor (switch)
Every time you use it you should hear a wall fade sound and open 1 of 4 tunnels.
There are 7 x 4 of such 'blocks' through the mine so the way should be a little bit 'random' each time you hit the reactor-switch.
If you fly to the opposite side of that test level you'll find the exit(switch).
Using this one ALL 'blocks' should be away and you can fly back to the 'reactor-switch' (you can without doing that for sure too) and try again.
Not any check if anyone is not at the starting point, all just straight forward to check the 'blocking mechanism.

Let me know if it's working for you and if you could like the idea in general.

[-<WillyP>-]

I've only got one machine set up with D3 right now,  but I tried your level and it seems the walls open and close at random?

I think the idea of a variable sized level is good. For anarchy, it sucks to to have to search a huge level for one other player.  But that is a level with no story-line, if you have a level that is meant for singleplayer but you are playing in co-op, it still has a story line and would not make sense section off part of the story.  Just like a book, you can't just remove chapters at random to make it shorter, it needs to be re-written.

For anarchy, or other multiplayer gametypes except co-op, it could be very useful to reduce the size of the level when there are few players.  And open it up when there are a large number of players.  So these are the issues I see for such a level: First, what happens to players who are in the large section, if the level gets smaller?  I can see three solutions.
1) They could be teleported to somewhere inside the reduced level. There could be some logistics issues with teleporting a number of players at once, and they may become disorientated.
2) They are allowed to find their own way back and pass through one-sided faces to become trapped in the smaller level once they get there.  Some players may stay in the large section with this solution. (think Goerdon )
3) Make the large section unlivable.  A large face of magma could rise up closing off the bottom areas of the level, forcing players to fly up towards the higher areas.
Of course, with any of these all spawn points would have to be in the smallest area.

[Shroudeye]

I'd like to see the level too, Atan

@WillyP: Well, we might still use the spawn points throughout the entire level, and enable/disable them as players connect and leave, and areas got opened and closed?

[-<WillyP>-]

I'd like to see the level too, Atan

Well, since he attached it to his post I guess that means you can.

@WillyP: Well, we might still use the spawn points throughout the entire level, and enable/disable them as players connect and leave, and areas got opened and closed?

If you can turn on and off spawn points that would work.

[Babylon]

Option #2 wouldn't be bad; even if players decided to stay in the large sealed off areas, they would be by themselves until they decided to rejoin the group.  There's really no harm leaving them in there by themselves, unless they decided to take advantage of the one-sided face...

Another thing you could do is totally block off the room and place a manual teleporter in it that only activates when it's sealed off.  That way stubborn players are out kept out of the way, with the less-jarring option of teleporting back manually.

Atan: the concept worked perfectly here.  The fake walls are sticky, though, and prohibit weapon spawns; I'm not sure if that would be a problem or not.

[(LL)Atan]

Thx for testing the idea.
I build this one for try out my idea only.
Sure it can't be used inside big levels everywhere.
Because it's used at level start only, there would be no need to check for players.
What you see inside this test level is just to check out variations. In 'real' all would be come to end if the Reactor is destroyed.
Those who can escape would earn points, others die inside the mine..

Who might think over how I did this..
It's done with an object which I placed inside the level at several places and ghost them randomly (script) in the game by using the switch. That's all.
Next time I will take something other than objects to block.

[VANGUARD]

What are some of those types of gameplay anyway?  I don't know some, some I do. having it listed "may" help some direct this game in the right direction. I'm "sort of" helping by listing them. If anyone can answer the ones I don't know, I'd appreciate it.

Singleplayer - Easy, you just play a map all by your self
Co-op - Now you can play a map with players and kill off those bots, and reach to the exit
Anarchy - Free for all
CTF - Two teams, one has to capture the other teams flag
Entropy - ?
Instareap - ?
Frag-tag - ? Firing a frag kills them?
Gaurdian - ? I'm assuming you're guarding something  
Assault - ? Assault people?
Break-out - ? Is this like the atari 5200 Breakout? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Breakout#Super_Breakout
Monsterball - Good old soccer! two teams, one big monsterball. must hit into the goal.
Team anarchy - free for all, but split up into teams
Team instareap - ?
Hyper anarchy - ? you move really fast?
Team hoard - ? two teams hoards the chips?
Pyromania - ? fire?
Inferno - ? more fire?
Robo-anarchy - ? assuming free for all, kill humans and robots.

[Foil]

What are some of those types of gameplay anyway?  I don't know some, some I do.

Just to clear this up for folks who don't know.

Entropy - Two-team.  Complex gameply involving getting successive kills so you can pick up 'virus' objects and capture enemy rooms.

Instareap / Team instareap - Everyone gets only the MD, which is enough to kill in one shot.

Frag-tag - Sort of "tag you're it", using frag missile pieces.

Gaurdian - Another complex two-team gametype involving rooms which give certain powerups.

Assault - Two teams, goal is to destroy all objects in the opponent's base.

BreakOut - [I created this one, Van. ]  Two-team, goal is to kill/capture all opponents, but you can free your own teammates.

Hyper anarchy - Anarchy but with a "bonus orb" which gives extra points if you hold it and make kills.

Team hoard - Collect orbs from killed players and score in marked rooms.

Pyromania - Big mod involving a number of new ships and weapons.


Now, none of the above really fit some of the ideas which have been posted.  As I offered before: If needed, I can create a custom .d3m (custom gametype) for this.

[-<WillyP>-]

Thx for testing the idea.
I build this one for try out my idea only.
Sure it can't be used inside big levels everywhere.
Because it's used at level start only, there would be no need to check for players.
What you see inside this test level is just to check out variations. In 'real' all would be come to end if the Reactor is destroyed.
Those who can escape would earn points, others die inside the mine..

Who might think over how I did this..
It's done with an object which I placed inside the level at several places and ghost them randomly (script) in the game by using the switch. That's all.
Next time I will take something other than objects to block.

Well, I am very confused now.  I tested your level just by myself.  And I hit the swiches and flew from end to end. The I put a marker on two of the walls and when I hit the first switch, they open and close.  But you say only at level start... How would that help with making a level adjust to size according to number of players?  Or is there some other goal of your test I did not see?

[VANGUARD]

ah, assault. I remember playing that type online. it was, some space like map with two ships. It was mostly the CTF style. It had that mega bomb as being green or, maybe that was the black shark.
that was fun.

Breakout sounds fun if you get free soon, boring if not. unless you do other things in the mean time.

and I did play some orb game thing once, and I think even the MD one as well.

thanks for the info. I'm assuming I got mine right. most I knew, one or two I wasn't sure.

[VANGUARD]

I read some ideas, thinking some of my own. I think overall, it may be a blend of what some have suggested.
This idea is like "Five" on Black Ops: Zombies.

The idea of three sections I think would be nice. Like "five", you have the tables and chairs, hall ways, places blocked off. second section is "war room", third is "labs".
not saying we do that for this, but like what was originally talked about.
Having three sections. defeat one, move to the second. Of course, in "Five", you can go back to any area you've already been in.

Sort of in a nutshell:

1. Spawn in a room where you can get powerups. This could be separated by each pilot or team.
2. Leave room (can't return) and begin the 1st of 3 stages. Be nice if each one had something slgihtly different, like "Five". The decor, layout, etc are different in "Five".

I suppose a team like game would be hard though. Okay, why I just thought of this, I don't know. but I did, and I'm going to tel you guys even if this is not possible, and even STUPID.

Have two teams, two maps, both basically the same. and see how fast the team can get to the end and win basically. They may have to trigger something to activate something else, etc..
May not work as well when you keep playing the game, and get use to it more. maybe add robots.
It's probably DUMB, I don't know. I am just throwing out what I can. I wish I could help on a map, or music, or new decal, but I am so horrible with that.
I'm impressed with my avatar, that should tell you how bad I am with making music or decal, etc..