Topic: The Age Old Argument of Descent MIDIs Correlating to Redbook Audio

[Alieo]

If you're a true Descenter, you'll know that the PSX and MAC versions of the D1 music have obvious correlations to their MIDI counterparts such as GAME02, GAME03, GAME12, GAME14, GAME18, along with some other "New Songs" as so labeled--songs that were made JUST for the PSX and MAC versions. Well, what if I told you that those "new songs" actually have a MIDI counterpart? Heck, what if I told you that ***ALL*** REDBOOK AUDIO FROM D1 and D2 ALL have a MIDI counterpart in both D1 AND D2 MIDIs? Now, before jumping me, this ENTIRE post is all MY opinion and my opinion only, but I think I've got something here.

Now, there are the obvious correlations as mentioned above, but I think ALL these tracks are just MIDIs remixed and remade into high quality instrumentation. When you remix a song, sometimes you want to give the song a completely new spin, but the element of the original is STILL in there, and after listening and listening and listening to Descent music for 15 years, I think I've cracked ALL correlations.

OK! Here is my MIDI to Redbook Audio Correlation List. Enjoy, and let me hear your feedback. Remember, if the correlation seems to you like a stretch, listen to both MIDI tracks and Redbook track and you should keep an ear out to where the song climaxes, drum patterns, melody, etc. Some were harder to figure out than others, but I made these choices wisely.

Game01: Rusty
MIDI [I say MIDI but I found the *.hmp's for more originality]:
RBA [Redbook Audio]: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=324

Game02: Virtual Tension (PSX Lvl 1)
MIDI:
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=325

Game03: Mystery Metal (PSX Lvl 10)
MIDI:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5w9Fh4e6iw&feature=related
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=326

Game04: Pink Floyd's "On the Run" best matches this song. From the way it begins to the plane crash at the end, On the Run follows the theme of Game04. This is just my perception, but wouldn't it be cool if the Descent songwriters actually tried to remake "On the Run" by Pink Floyd and Game04 was the end result? Along with Game16, there is no Redbook equivalent for Game04.
MIDI:
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=327

Game05: Not That Button! (PSX Lvl 4) Its the one that starts off with a bunch of isolated steady beats in the beginning.
MIDI:
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=328

Game06: Pain (AKA D2's Artifact Research redbook audio track)
MIDI:
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=329

Game07: Industrial Accident (PSX Lvl 7) The one that sounds club/disco-ish
MIDI:
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=330

Game08: Death (One of the D2 "New Songs." I've heard that's the title somewhere. You may know it as "The Well."
MIDI:
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=331

Game09: Overdrive
MIDI:
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=332

Game10: Collision Dome Extraction (The violins match the MIDIs synth lead to the T! It does!)
MIDI:
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=333

Game11: Glut
MIDI:
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=334

Game12: Robotic Menace (PSX Lvl11)
MIDI:
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=335

Game13: Robot Jungle
MIDI:
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=336

Game14: A Big Problem (No stretching this at all. This sounds exactly like the original MIDI) (PSX Lvl 5)
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFZKByNixcI&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=337

Game15: Are You Descent?
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2byxjT0F3b8&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=338

Game16: Methane (You probably haven't heard this before because it doesn't have a counterpart, but "Methane" is a song I made and it is available in my album in the Gallery section. Hope you like it. You'll hear a faded "Gunner Down" in the background.)
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x88_GgBW3RQ&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=339

Game17: Crush
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHXrZH1G2Wc&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=340

Game18: Hydraulic Pressure (PSX Lvl. 2) (An obvious remix of MIDI Game18)
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBtqvL-WCus&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=341

Game19: Gunner Down
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a69N5W7Uv8I&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=342

Game20: Base Return (Movie intro to Descent 2 minus the SFX.)
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbthKR5lHHE&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=343

Game21: Robotic Reprise (My own remix of Game12's counterpart, "Robotic Menace" with a hint of Game21 in there.) http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=287
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASsVVgKX41E&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=344

Game22: Time for the Big Guns (PSX Lvl 3) (Obvious remix of Game22)
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB6BYqbdSGQ&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=345

***NOTE: I refer to D2 MIDIs as Game23-Game26, instead of D2 Game01-D2 Game04.***

Game23(D2 Game01): Cold Reality
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FXKiYA6tgM&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=346

Game24(D2 Game02): Techno Industry
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEs8PQHzjY0&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=347

Game25(D2 Game03): Ratzez (My reasoning for this association? I plead the 11th! See Game11's explanation)
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSKpZYg7Kww&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=348

Game26(D2 Game04): Haunted
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD2oDAMJ88I&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=349
Type O Negative: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R11CHOLiBA (Embedding disabled, limit reached) (Thank you, Descent, for introducing me to a REALLY talented group. R.I.P. Peter Steele - Lead Vocalist (1/4/62-4/14/10)

Descent Theme: Primitive Rage
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwhDaESo9rk (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=350


D1 Briefing: Outer Limits
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAfb6Rit0vY&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=351

D1 Endgame: Final Mission (Music from the clip of escaping D2 Lvl 24 minus the SFX.)
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK1NZs1jwPM&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=352

D1 Credits: Starfield
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSmp2Q_gPks&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=353

D2 Title: Descent II (Extended Remix) (My Remix!)
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huAu17E9Y50 (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=354

D2 Debriefing: Crawl
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8du6enkk_G8 (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=355

D2 Credits: Revelation (Remixed by DJ Redlight of ocremix.org)
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBFyvjkbYbw&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=356

Endlevel: Exiting the Mine! (Self-explainatory. Cinematic mine-escaping track.)
MIDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA2qeAetKMw&feature=related (Embedding disabled, limit reached)
RBA: http://www.planetdescent.net/index.php?action=mgallery;sa=item;id=357

I'll be constantly updating this list (last updated 2/10/11) as I need to swap things. Please share your opinions. This is the exact track order I have them in my files on my computer.

[Scyphi]

Well, I believe a lot of these are stretching it, and I disagree that any of the music from the D2 Redbook is a remix, but other than that, yes, some of these are remixes of their original midi (or HMPs and Qs) counterparts, particularly the D1 ones.

But not all of them.

[Kaiaatzl]

I've thought about this too, I didn't consider Ratzez as D2 Game03 but now that I've heard the D1 PSX version I see where you're coming from (the arrangement of the different parts and especially the highs and lows in terms of intensity is exactly the same, and it has that kind of lead-in at the beginning too).

I would argue that Cold Reality, at least the extended version, is D2 Game02 (it correlates much better to that then Techno Industry does, though they have the same kind of arrangement with the lead in and the end), Cold Reality's lead is also seemingly a rearrangement of the notes in D2 Game02's lead.  Are You Descent is much more like D2 Game04 than Crawl is (The guitar lead sounds like it's taken from D2 Game04's bass in fact, and a few other parts seem to loosely correlate with parts of the D2 level 4 midi).  And it's much more like boss music.  The monster sound you hear at the beginning is like the reverse cymbal in that part of the midi as well.
I don't think Haunted correlates with anything, or at least Parallax didn't do it intentionally.
I see where you're coming from on Gunner Down as game17, but it has always seemed more like D2 Game01 to me (two very different parts etc).  Game17 was more of the same part repeated over several times with minor differences (and a change near the end).
And using the music from the intro movie is kind of stretching it.

Apart from that I completely agree, especially on what you have for game04 (I saw someone saying that song was game09 once  ).

[Alieo]

Ok, on my links that I posted to the songs, if they contain the short version of any song, I meant for the actual correlation to apply to the extended version. I don't know why they call it the extended version because the "original" versions sound like a cut up version of the extended versions. But I just posted whatever I could find on youtube as a refresher for what they sound like, in case anyone here is "Rusty" on what they should sound like.


(EDIT: WRONG CORRELATION. SEE UPDATED LIST ABOVE) Cold Reality|Game01-- I'm listening to it again, and actually, as I was finding and posting links to compare the songs, this one person on youtube says that Cold Reality has a "striking resemblance" to Game01 in D2, not D1. I actually agree! I think it sounds MUCH more like D2 Game01 than Game02. So, since I have "Rusty" down for D2 Game01, where does that go? Listening to "Rusty" again, I've come to think that THAT is actually Lunar Outpost! The "jigga-jigga" sound effects match right up to it, ESPECIALLY the PSX version. What do you think of this?

Techno Industry|Game24 (D2 Game02)-- I'm sorry but I have to argue back that Techno Industry sounds too much like Game24 (D2 Game02) to me. This is all IMO, of course, but I'm interested in all of y'all's feedback. In the beginning, the "engine ignition" sound sounds more to me like the beginning of D2 Game02. The lead guitar is like a rearranged and more complex sound of the melody for Game02. Same high and low points. The kickass guitar part in the middle happens in D2 Game02 MIDI right around 2:23. In the full version of Techno Industry, it happens at 2:13. BUT! The bass guitar follows the same pattern of the bass of D2 Game01. So, I agree, it could be both, but personally I think it follows Game02 more... also, D2 Game01 is a waaay short track.

(EDIT: WRONG CORRELATION. SEE UPDATED LIST ABOVE) Are You Descent?|Game09-- Okay, I see where you're coming from with the reverse cymbal in the MIDI and it sounds more like a boss track. I agree with you 51%. But I cannot let go of the fact that the melody and the bass mirror Game09... especially the calmness at the end of both Game09 and "Are you Descent?" I think Are You Descent is a more upbeat version of Game09. If it is D2 Game04, where does that put "Crawl?" I've always thought Crawl was more like D2 Game04 because of the breakdown at the middle kind of sounding like the trumpeting part of the climax of D2 Game04.

Gunner Down|Game04--"Game17 was more of the same part repeated over several times with minor differences" That's exactly why I think it's Game17. I don't think Gunner Down belongs to D2 Game01 because both Cold Reality and Techno Industry could fit that better.

Collision Dome Excavation|Game10-- The slap bass of Game10 completely mirrors the violins combined with the guitars in CDE... HANDS DOWN! Of course this has got to be a D1 MIDI... wasn't this the song that was part of the PSX intro cutscene? hehe...

(EDIT: WRONG CORRELATION. SEE UPDATED LIST ABOVE) Machine Gun|Game04-- I saw that same reference to Game09 from someone who left a comment on youtube on Machine Gun. I just don't see anything else that would go with Game04. It matches it to the T, and it is not in the D2 Redbook Audio. I've never head this track before I heard the MAC version.

(EDIT: VERY WRONG CORRELATION. SEE UPDATED LIST ABOVE) Haunted/Primitive Rage|Game06-- Yeah, I agree. In my Descent Redbook Audio MP3 files, this is the track order I have them in and I felt that it remotely resembles Haunted the best, but what represends Game06 even better than Haunted is none other than Primitive Rage (Descent Title from MAC, PSX Level 6). You can most definitely hear Game06 in Primitive Rage in how it begins, then it goes to the D1 Theme. The bass is consistant. Basically, Primitive Rage is like a perfect fusion of the Descent Title Theme and Game06. Haunted is just a filler, but a DAMN good song! Even though it's a slow and relaxing track, it motivated me to rapidly fire and work quickly, like I was in slow motion and I was struggling to get out of slow motion. I kicked SO much ass to this song!

Considerations of Amendments to My List:
Cold Reality: Game01 --> Game23 (D2 Game01)
Rusty: Game23 (D2 Game01) --> Game01

(EDIT: WRONG CORRELATIONS. SEE UPDATED LIST ABOVE)

[Kaiaatzl]

Techno Industry|Game24 (D2 Game02)-- I'm sorry but I have to argue back that Techno Industry sounds too much like Game24 (D2 Game02) to me. This is all IMO, of course, but I'm interested in all of y'all's feedback. In the beginning, the "engine ignition" sound sounds more to me like the beginning of D2 Game02. The lead guitar is like a rearranged and more complex sound of the melody for Game02. Same high and low points. The kickass guitar part in the middle happens in D2 Game02 MIDI right around 2:23. In the full version of Techno Industry, it happens at 2:13. BUT! The bass guitar follows the same pattern of the bass of D2 Game01. So, I agree, it could be both, but personally I think it follows Game02 more... also, D2 Game01 is a waaay short track.

Are You Descent?|Game09-- Okay, I see where you're coming from with the reverse cymbal in the MIDI and it sounds more like a boss track. I agree with you 51%. But I cannot let go of the fact that the melody and the bass mirror Game09... especially the calmness at the end of both Game09 and "Are you Descent?" I think Are You Descent is a more upbeat version of Game09. If it is D2 Game04, where does that put "Crawl?" I've always thought Crawl was more like D2 Game04 because of the breakdown at the middle kind of sounding like the trumpeting part of the climax of D2 Game04.

The general rule I've gone with was "D1 redbook = D1 midi, D2 Redbook = D2 midi".  Yeah, I know this means some of the D2 midis have multiple remixes, so what.  Many of the D2 redbook tracks seem to be similar to the same midi multiple times anyway (both Cold Reality and Techno Industry are D2 game02 IMO, the windy fx at the beginning of Cold Reality sound just like the low reverse cymbal did on both the roland soundcard and Awe32).

Resistance is futile .

Anyway, we can discuss this all we like but even if this was intended by the composers we'll never know (except for the ones on D1 redbook obviously).  I'll be sure to ask Ron Valdez about Are You Descent if I ever run into him on the street.  (Honestly I doubt he would even remember what was intended).

And anyway a battle of opinions can never be won... (and everyone else just misunderstands).  I personally think we have differing perceptions of what constitutes "similar" (which ultimately leads to the philosophical question of "does everyone percieve the same thing in the same way?").  In any case, opinions, by definition, are equally valid no matter what they are.  I can respect your opinion without changing mine or even understanding yours (and I endeavour to respect people's opinions, always).

[Alieo]

@wazzazzle: I understand. I'm just so darn OCD about all this! I DO see where you're coming from. lol... but yeah, that's how I have my redbook audios arranged on my folder, in that order. Meh...

On a different note... I was looking for my Definitive Collection CDs with my D1-D2 & Vertigo when I stumbled along my old PSX version of Descent... Right now, I am in the process of ripping ALL the music tracks off of it. Took some scavenging to find a good file converter, but guess what I found on there? I'll give you a hint: it's the HOLY GRAIL of D1 Hi-Quality audios you've been looking for! Muahahahaha!!!

[Kaiaatzl]

I'll be watching the gallery.  Thanks.

[Alieo]

A few changes were made to the song association list at the front. Check it out.

EDIT: Added one for Game04. I broke the rules and didn't keep it an original Descent song. It just went with it that good! Check out updated list.

[-<WillyP>-]

I think that is quite a stretch to say they copied Pink Floyd.  Influenced, may be a better term.

[TechPro]

I think that is quite a stretch to say they copied Pink Floyd.  Influenced, may be a better term.

The Pink Floyd aficionado in me has to agree with WillyP on that one.

Pink Floyd's "On The Run" is more of a series of sounds and effects blended together to a) set the mood, b) tell a portion of the overall theme/story of the album, and c) transition to the next track on the album.  As a song, it really isn't because it lacks the typical characteristics of a song or musical piece. It's purpose (quite probably sole reason to exist) is to be a small portion of the "Dark Side of the Moon" album, not as a stand alone work.

The midi music for Game04 is clearly a musical piece as it has the necessary parts (a clear beginning, end, meter, etc.) and easily stands alone as a work of music.  

The rhythms and overlying pattern is distinctly similar to the first portion of Pink Floyd's "On The Run" but beyond that, I just don't see the comparison.

* Dun-da-Da! TechPro! -- Argh!  The musician in me just got out!  Back! Back, I say!

.

[Alieo]

Yeah, I agree with y'all in the sense that it was just a filler track and that it could have "inspired" Game04. I just HAD to put something in the #4 spot. I already made my own concoction for Game16, and didn't feel like doing one for Game04, so I just decided to put On the Run there because of the similar steadfast rhythm. Believe me, in NO WAY do I think these songs are "counterparts" or "correlations" of any kind to each other.

Although the intro to Avril Lavigne's "He Wasn't" has a STRIKING resemblance to Game03.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DsaLBK3WN4 (Embedding disabled, limit reached)

THIEF!!!

[NUMBERZero]

Lolno, that is not a striking resemblance. Personally, I thought it was a striking annoyance. I don't like dat mainstream stuph.

[Scyphi]

@ Techpro: You listed "b" twice.

[-<WillyP>-]

He was in a warp zone from listening to Pink Floyd.  When you twist time and space, you can do amazing things like having two b's in the same post.

[TechPro]

True, true.

I fixed it anyway.