Topic: Descent Mac Shareware Music

[Scyphi]

Hmm...are we talking about a live instrument-performed version, or a midi synth version?

I ask, because if it's the live-instrument version, for a mix of D1's Game 13, then if such a thing actually exists, I've never ever heard it. And considering I've taken the time to listen to pretty much all the Descent music in existence and Game 13's a personal favorite, that would surprise me greatly. 

If it's a midi synth version, then its back to what WillyP said before, and it depends very much on the sort of sound hardware being used. Those D1 midis sounded different on different sound cards. In which case, all we'd need to do is figure out what sort of sound card we're looking to simulate. But the thing is, I didn't think the Mac version used the midi synths at all, just the redbook music (as I said before, I have a full version of the MacPlay D1, and I was never able to switch it from the redbook to the midi synths, which are what I prefer for in-game, despite repeated attempts before I eventually stopped using it). So, you know, consider me confused on this.

Where's Kaiaatzl, anyway? He seems to be our resident on all things Descent music, he'd probably be able to help...

*few minutes later* Okay, I've done some more digging, and found another thread talking about this same subject, which you can read here (conversation stalled out on it back in 2015, though). In summary, near as has been figured out, the Mac shareware version used some sort of synthized version of music, but different from the standard hmp's and q's file formatting D1 uses on PC machines, presumably so it'd run on Mac. Most likely then, it IS a hardware thing, and it'll sound different unless it's the same hardware as the machine in question was using when you first heard it.

Problem is, it seems no one is quite certain on what specs would be needed to recreate it, and it seems for the past twenty years, the Mac shareware's version of the music has gone under everybody's radar and nobody ever thought to record copies of it, because I really can't find more information than that. Without that, I can't guarantee that your music on that disk will even playback in the manner you want without the original system it was designed for to run it on.

So no, it's not going to be as simple as just ripping the files off your disk, unfortunately. I'm not even sure what files we'd need to rip off it anyway, as, again, it seems the Mac version was not using the hmp files the PC version was, nor any obvious replacement file, or so those who have probed into this before me seem to have determined. 

If you have access to the right Mac system from the 90s to run the files on though, then that's a start, at least, but I can't help much beyond that, as my knowledge of Macs and what would be needed to rip the music in the proper soundfont is pretty much nonexistent.

Wish we could help more. 

[Chaplain5]

Thanks for the help so far. 

Yes, I do still have access to my old mac and could run the demo right now if I wanted. I had considered bringing an old version of Audacity over to it via flash-drive and recording the music while the demo played. Unfortunately, I don't yet have a flash drive that will fit into the computer's usb slot.

This may take me some time...

But you know what? I've had it. I've had it with searching for the past decade for this music. I've had it with so few other people knowing what music I'm talking about. For the sake of Descent'ers everywhere, I, Chaplain5, will do my utmost to record this music.

*epic music comes to a stop with record scratch*

Tomorrow.

[Scyphi]

Yes, sounds like that's going to be the best way to get the music at this point, by sound capturing it with some program capable of doing so while the music plays in-game.

If and when you succeed at this, please do share the files with the rest of us. You've gotten me curious about these "lost" Mac Shareware songs. 

[Chaplain5]

After much searching, I finally found a flash drive that works with both PC and the old mac and fist in the weirdly-shaped usb port. I got Audacity over to the old mac, and it runs! AW YEAH

I checked out the options for the recording source, and in addition to the built-in mic I have an option for "sound in" and one for "internal modem". Either of those could quite possibly be what I'm looking for. AW YEAH

This is shaping up nicely! AW YEAH 

[Chaplain5]

If I had a male-to-male stereo cable, could I connect it from the speaker port of my mac to the mic-in port on my pc and use audacity on my pc to record the audio coming from my mac? 

Because I can't find any software for mac os 9 that will record audio output.

[Hunter]

Please share if you succeed. You may one of few people with access to a rare shareware mix (assuming you're not crazy).

[Chaplain5]

Please share if you succeed. You may one of few people with access to a rare shareware mix (assuming you're not crazy).

Crazy? Who huh me? I'm not crazy. Not because I talk to myself while playing Descent late at night. Crazy? Huh? Not me...



Really, though, I promise I am not making this up. I ran the demo today, and the music is different, just like I remembered it. I'd forgotten just how much I like the menu music.

Yeah, so I just ordered a stereo cable. Might take a while to get here. We'll see if that does the trick... Basically the mac's output will be my pc's mic-in input.

[Hunter]

Can't you record it with your phone or something? Yeah I know they have shitty microphones, but that way we at least get somekind of preview so we can locate this music..

Crazy? Who huh me? I'm not crazy. Not because I talk to myself while playing Descent late at night. Crazy? Huh? Not me...

Perfectly normal behavior for intelligent humans.

Btw, did you check out the shareware versions at the bottom of this page?
https://sectorgame.com/descentfiles/?dir=uploads/Music%20%26%20Sound%20Effects/Descent/Descent%20Midi%20Soundtrack%20%28OPL3%29

[Chaplain5]

Yup. I thoroughly looked through the Descent Files, and they're not there. That must be for the pc shareware. But thanks anyway! 

[Chaplain5]

Don't worry guys, I did not forget about this! The stereo cable came today, soon I'll get the two computers linked from the speaker port on the mac to the mic in port on the pc, and we'll see what happens!

[Chaplain5]

I've got it! I can record sound from my mac by plugging it into my mic port.

Here's the caveat: My mac speakers are old and there's a little speaker whine. I'm going to use Audacity to remove the noise through the noise removal feature, but be aware that this is not going to be a pure recording ripped right from the sound card like the rest of the Descent Soundtracks. This is the only way we can have it at all.

[Chaplain5]

So removing the speaker whine causes a reduction in the music fidelity. It's not much but it's there. And you can still hear the whine if you listen very closely. Basically I have a slider between fidelity and whine removal.

Is that worth it?

[Chaplain5]

Better idea: I am not a skilled audio engineer. If I send the raw recordings noise and all to someone, could they please master them for me?

[-<WillyP>-]

Unless you are recording from a microphone placed in front of the speakers the whine isn't coming from the speakers, it's coming from the sound-card in either machine, or the cabling from Mac sound-card to your PC sound-card.

You should first try eliminating the whine, easiest thing to try is to move the cables around while listening to see if that has any effect at all. If there are cables inside either machine from the sound-card to the port, they could be picking up noise from inside the machine, or it could be poor shielding on the new cable you bought. You might also try re-routing any fan or other cables away from the sound-card or any audio cables inside the machine.

If moving the cables around has no effect, and replacing the sound-card is not an option, perhaps someone with a Mac might be willing to try for a conversion without the whine.

[Chaplain5]

I'll try moving the cables around. Unfortunately, as much as I want to get this done, I don't think opening up the Mac is an option.

It could indeed be poor shielding. This was a cheap generic stereo cable from ebay. Maybe I could check the store for something more deliberately made. Does shielding really make a difference?