Topic: The Never-Built Levels

[-<WillyP>-]

I found D3Edit easy to use, but then it was my first experience with any 3d or game creation software, so I didn't bring preconceived notions in with me. I went through a tutorial in Blender, mostly thinking how easy it would have been just to do it in D3Edit.

[TechPro]

I've kind of wondered... Can you randomize doors/portals in D3 through scripting?   And then can you "hide" the doors/portals so that you cannot seem them (or mostly not see them), thus making a certain amount of mystery/unknown to a level each time you play it?

You could be zipping down a passage to a destination to solve/accomplish the next goal only to be suddenly (without warning) transported by portal to a different location in the map thus forcing you to scramble to either adapt to the new location or escape sudden peril.   Naturally, there would have to be a means/madness to it or a certain amount of passage alternatives to ensure you are not likely to be completely unable to complete the mission ... you would just never know when/where the invisible doors/portals would be located with each playing of the level.

Is that sort of thing possible in D3?   I doubt it's possible in D1 or D2.

[Hunter]

Without knowing exactly what you have in mind I can't say for certain, but it's not possible to visibly hide doors in D3. However, it is possible to randomize scripts and create the illusion of randomness through a series of clever tricks. Using the various methods available it would be possible to have hidden jump portals throughout a map - with a randomized activation sequence that would only trigger when you land on them. That's not so difficult to implement, but it would become a predictable pattern after a while.

[Scyphi]

I found D3Edit easy to use, but then it was my first experience with any 3d or game creation software, so I didn't bring preconceived notions in with me. I went through a tutorial in Blender, mostly thinking how easy it would have been just to do it in D3Edit.

I admit that my biggest gripe with D3Edit is largely the fact that it doesn't feel like it gives me the range of precision and control I desire, and I often found that if I made a small goof or had a small change I wanted to make in the geometry, it wasn't especially easy or simple to do so. I remember thinking once or twice even that I'd rather try to create the same shapes in something like DLE-XP because I felt I had more precise control over the shapes I was trying to make, just not the ability to use as many polygons at a time. It's entirely possible some of this is just in my head, but at the same time, it's easy to see why there aren't more people working with D3Edit to make D3 levels, of any type.

Blender is amazing because it not just gives you that fine control over every element of what shapes your modeling, it's simple enough to adjust them, including the ability to more or less "drag and drop"...though even omitting that feature I found it easier to use that D3Edit's system. Blender also has a heck of a lot better viewer than D3Edit...that was another gripe I had, but I relent in admitting that one is a bit more personal than anything.

But it depends on the person, clearly.

I've kind of wondered... Can you randomize doors/portals in D3 through scripting?   And then can you "hide" the doors/portals so that you cannot seem them (or mostly not see them), thus making a certain amount of mystery/unknown to a level each time you play it?

Obviously I'm no expert on this, but if I understand what you're envisioning correctly enough, I imagine you could achieve a roughly similar effect through the use of some sort of teleporter script. You wouldn't really be able to apply a door directly to that though--unlike D1/D2 which treats doors and triggers both as if they're walls, D3 treats doors as if they are whole rooms, including the door as well as part of the geometry forming it's "socket" in whatever wall you've attached it to.

You might have an easier time trying it in D2X-XL though, as that offers the options of teleporter triggers. Just scatter a bunch of those throughout the level to taste, set them up to randomly teleport to different locations (or whatever locations desired) and simply not put any textures on them. Theoretically, you could apply a door texture to such a teleporter trigger as I recall (been a couple years), but that wouldn't exactly be "hiding" the visual image of the door per say, just disguising a teleporter as a door. *double checks real quick* Oh yeah, you can totally do that if you want, though the "door" wouldn't respond like a traditional door; it would just be a texture overlay.

This is all assuming I've understood you correctly of course; I'm only mostly certain I'm following you on what you're describing.

Speaking of Techpro...when are you going to share you're "never-built," or at least unfinished, levels...I know you've got at least one. 

[TechPro]

Speaking of Techpro...when are you going to share you're "never-built," or at least unfinished, levels...I know you've got at least one. 

Moi?? 

[-<WillyP>-]

Without knowing exactly what you have in mind I can't say for certain, but it's not possible to visibly hide doors in D3. However, it is possible to randomize scripts and create the illusion of randomness through a series of clever tricks. Using the various methods available it would be possible to have hidden jump portals throughout a map - with a randomized activation sequence that would only trigger when you land on them. That's not so difficult to implement, but it would become a predictable pattern after a while.

The door object itself can't be hidden, but IIRC you can hide textures and change textures. So, you could put a hidden texture over the portal to the door room, then change the texture to a solid texture when you want to hide the door.

If you want to hide a door and be able to fly through it, you can design your own doors to be completely hidden when open, and script them to randomly be open or closed.

But as you say, it could become predictable after some amount of play-through, it just would depend on the number of random variables you are willing to put in. D3 has a lot of hard limits programed in that would seem quite limited by today's standards.

TBH, I think that kind of randomness would be quite annoying in multiplayer, and confusing in singleplayer.

[Hunter]

Yeah you can switch textures in front of the doors with one being a solid texture, the other being a transparent one with no collide. However scripting is very buggy and in multiplayer it often breaks down. For example changing a texture from a solid to a pass-through or vice versa works fine in SP, but in MP a missed tick will result in some players seeing a wall while others will be able to pass through it.

[Scyphi]

Speaking of Techpro...when are you going to share you're "never-built," or at least unfinished, levels...I know you've got at least one. 

Moi?? 

*cough*cough*ConferencePanic*cough*cough*forD2*cough*cough*

Unless you've done more work on it behind the scenes and I never found out, it is technically still unfinished, and you don't seem to be getting around to changing that anytime soon... 

[TechPro]

I managed to dig through some dust... and found my most recent version... and did a bunch.

Scyphi,
Have you had the chance to play through what I sent you to check out?

[Scyphi]

Not yet, but it is on my to-do list...to do...when...I can find the time...which is never around when I need it these days...

...Darn that time...