Topic: Most Significant Games of All Time

[-<WillyP>-]

In another thread, Enzo posted about a class he was taking that in involved several well know games. The games he listed are:

Black Isle - PLANESCAPE: TORMENT
Sierra - PHARAOH
Black Isle/Interplay - FALLOUT
Interplay - DESCENT
Square Enix - TOMB RAIDER
Cyan - MYST
Id/Apogee - COMMANDER KEEN
Origin - ULTIMA IV
Sierra - KING’S QUEST I, II, III
Sierra - SPACE QUEST I
Infocom - ZORK I: THE UNDERGROUND KINGDOM

TechPro replied:

Every game in that list were either very significant to the 'gaming community' or (in most cases) were groundbreaking with the technology/methods used.

Lets discuss the most significant games in the history of gaming, and why these games are groundbreaking, or significant. We all know Descent broke ground with having a freedom of movement unheard of in any other game. I've also seen vague references to the net-code being another area that Descent moved gaming forward. Not sure if the competition at the time (mainly Doom) even had a multi-player component.

The only other games on the list I've played are the Space Quest, Myst, Fallout,. Didn't care much for Fallout, but it was a very old game by the time I played it for the first time. I downloaded it from GOG.com, that's how old it was. SQ1 came out before Descent, IIRC, MYST much later, I played both of those when they were still fairly new. And I found both SQ1 and MYST quite engaging, but were they truly breakthroughs in game design, content, code, or some other aspect?

I often read that this game or that is a breakthrough in this aspect or that, but usually it is a pretty vague reference as to what 'this' or 'that' aspect actually is.

Let's make a list of games and I'll put up a new poll. Can we even choose one as being the most significant (not necessarily your favorite) game of all time? Or will we have to choose, say, the top three, or top five?

[CrazyEnzo03]

Not only did Doom have a multiplayer component, but it was when testing this that John Romero from id Software coined the term "Deathmatch," which is the standard name for "Kill as much as you can free-for-all" gametype.  You see the name everywhere in games nowadays.

Doom allowed only up to four players, but it was revolutionary for its time.  However, Doom, like other older multiplayer games such as Marathon and Mechwarrior 2's "NetMech" component, all players had to join at the beginning of the game.  There was no mid-game joining in most games those days as far as I know.

As we know, however, Descent *did* allow mid-game joining.  It also allowed up to 8 players while Doom only allowed up to four (a lot of Doom's source ports still have this limitation, though others do increase the amount of players by quite a bit).  Vanilla Doom also had an extremely nasty habit of sending packets to *all* computers on a network, not just those computers in the network taking part in the game.

Matt Toschlog is credited with this quote:

"In terms of multiplayer, Descent was the first game to work well over the Internet."

That said, I'm almost certain Doom is far more significant and influential than Descent, but that doesn't mean I like it better (maybe its music, but not its gameplay, at the very least for multiplayer).  I don't want anyone to pretend that Doom is not.

But Descent is it's own creature, and there's a reason or two its community is still alive today.

[Scyphi]

Commander Keen is notable on a technological aspect as it was one of the few (if not the first, but I would need to do more research before confirming that) DOS-based games of the day that successfully replicated side-scrolling gameplay like that unto Super Mario (in fact, the team that developed this feature first used it to port Super Mario Bros to PC, but Nintendo, while reportedly impressed with their success, decided they weren't interested in the PC market at the time, so the team formed id and made Commander Keen). Before then, it was apparently very difficult to do that (smoothly at least) for DOS systems. Keen's also noted for helping pioneer EGA graphics and shareware distribution.

That, and Keen proved fairly popular with players of the day.

The only other game I'm familiar with on that list in any shape or form (that's obviously not Descent) is Tomb Raider, but only as someone who was standing to one side watching another player play for a brief period of time. And admittedly I can't recall the full details, and even whether or not that particular Tomb Raider was actually the first game, or the second one. 

[-<WillyP>-]

Please don't limit responses to games 'on that list', I'd like to hear about any game you feel was significant, revolutionary and/or groundbreaking.

[tueidj]

Dune II from Westwood pretty much created the RTS genre out of thin air. They went on to develop the Command and Conquer/Red Alert series while Blizzard shamelessly ripped them off to create Warcraft I and subsequently Warcraft II/Starcraft/Warcraft III/World of Warcraft etc.

Vanilla Doom also had an extremely nasty habit of sending packets to *all* computers on a network, not just those computers in the network taking part in the game.

That was actually how IPX based networks functioned back then, before the days of switches - all data went to all computers regardless of their destination, the network was one big shared path (similar to today's wifi).

[CrazyEnzo03]

Commander Keen is notable on a technological aspect as it was one of the few (if not the first, but I would need to do more research before confirming that) DOS-based games of the day that successfully replicated side-scrolling gameplay like that unto Super Mario (in fact, the team that developed this feature first used it to port Super Mario Bros to PC, but Nintendo, while reportedly impressed with their success, decided they weren't interested in the PC market at the time, so the team formed id and made Commander Keen). Before then, it was apparently very difficult to do that (smoothly at least) for DOS systems. Keen's also noted for helping pioneer EGA graphics and shareware distribution.

That, and Keen proved fairly popular with players of the day.

The only other game I'm familiar with on that list in any shape or form (that's obviously not Descent) is Tomb Raider, but only as someone who was standing to one side watching another player play for a brief period of time. And admittedly I can't recall the full details, and even whether or not that particular Tomb Raider was actually the first game, or the second one. 

The key behind that was that John Carmack managed to figure out how to make the computer re-render as little data as possible rather than always redrawing the entire screen.  Before they actually ported SMB, Tom Hall and John Carmack slapped together a direct copy of SMB level one and featured John Romero's brainchild, Dangerous Dave.  They put it on a diskette on Romero's desk and left the talking to the game.  When he saw it he knew exactly the implications.  He then went to work on making an actual Dangerous Dave title using the technology.  In addition to that, Tom Hall created basically all of the ideas for Commander Keen.  It wasn't necessarily DOS-based systems but just IBM PCs in general (unless they were all DOS and I don't know what I'm talking about) being underpowered or at least less capable than the Apple IIs they started out with.

Vanilla Doom also had an extremely nasty habit of sending packets to *all* computers on a network, not just those computers in the network taking part in the game.

That was actually how IPX based networks functioned back then, before the days of switches - all data went to all computers regardless of their destination, the network was one big shared path (similar to today's wifi).

Again with me not knowing what I'm talking about

One game I was very disappointed to not find on the list was Wing Commander.  It's an extremely immersive game that still packs a punch as far as fun, but at the time of its release, it might as well have been called "Your Computer Probably Can't Run This"

[NUMBERZero]

Halo: Combat Evolved launched shooters to the top of many people's prioritized lists with its impressive graphics, good story, and alien blasting goodness.

Call of Duty 4 with its unique perk system has influenced pretty much every damn game out there today. The CoD series is also known for its ever regenerating health.
(I remember a time in the Battlefield series when you HAD to rely on your commander or medics to give you more health. In Bad Company, Bad Company 2, your health regenerated quickly. In Battlefield 3, it regenerates too, but after a long delay and for a long time.) And I think one last thing for CoD would be the aiming down the sights with the left trigger for console games. Omg, that was the most useful feature ever. It is so smooth to do. I remember raging at Halo 3 and after for NOT having that feature. Bungie was too damn stubborn. 343 Industries with its Halo 4 finally offered the left trigger ADS.

Duke Nukem and its amazingly profane, witty, and hilarious one liners.


Half-Life 2 with its story, gameplay, graphics, environments, game engine, and uber strong characters.

Team Fortress Classic/TF2 really shone through with its class based multiplayer.

Anything Valve, really, because Valve is now becoming the overlord of gaming, has an amazing game service (Steam) with irresistible sales.  Everybody has a love/hate relationship with Valve. Everybody loves Gabe, though.


And how can you miss Starcraft? I've barely seen or played the games, but South Korea has whole tournaments with thousands of dollars in prizes and teams and individuals sponsored by entire companies. One game influences an entire nation? Yeah, that's pretty significant.

[Matthew]

TF wasn't the first game to have class-based multiplayer, not by a longshot.

Nor was Duke the first game to have one-liners. CoD was really just the MMO genre leaking into FPSes.

[Scyphi]

Not to mention the fact that save the one-liners (that did not appear until LATER in the game series) Duke Nukem didn't REALLY have anything new to offer the game community that I'm aware of.

The key behind that was that John Carmack managed to figure out how to make the computer re-render as little data as possible rather than always redrawing the entire screen.  Before they actually ported SMB, Tom Hall and John Carmack slapped together a direct copy of SMB level one and featured John Romero's brainchild, Dangerous Dave.  They put it on a diskette on Romero's desk and left the talking to the game.  When he saw it he knew exactly the implications.  He then went to work on making an actual Dangerous Dave title using the technology.  In addition to that, Tom Hall created basically all of the ideas for Commander Keen.  It wasn't necessarily DOS-based systems but just IBM PCs in general (unless they were all DOS and I don't know what I'm talking about) being underpowered or at least less capable than the Apple IIs they started out with.

Yes, "Dangerous Dave in Copyright Infringement," as it was informally called. I'm aware of the story. Thank you for clarifying the technical aspect of it, though, my understanding behind that always was sort of vague.

Please don't limit responses to games 'on that list', I'd like to hear about any game you feel was significant, revolutionary and/or groundbreaking.

WillyP, the only games I really know anything about that ARE groundbreaking in anyway happens to BE on that list, so I didn't really have much choice in the matter.

Actually there are probably others, I just haven't thought of them...likely because I haven't played them in so long that I've forgotten all about them. 

Though I suppose I could probably bring up good ol' classic "Sonic the Hedgehog"...

[NUMBERZero]

TF wasn't the first game to have class-based multiplayer, not by a longshot.

Nor was Duke the first game to have one-liners. CoD was really just the MMO genre leaking into FPSes.

I never said that Team Fortress was the first nor did I say that Duke was the first. They are significant games because they defined a significant portion of the industry with their key traits.

And how the heck is CoD part of the MMO genre? An MMO game is a game that sticks many people onto one server, not 16 players tops into hundreds of games. It just has a large playerbase. Battlefield doesn't even count with its 64 players. MAG was getting closer with its 256 players. Planetside2, however, is a true MMO FPS with 2,000 players per server spread out over three continents.

[D2Disciple]

Oh, I could drag this discussion out for a looooooong time 

One that I've played recently: Megarace. This one stands out to me, only because I've never really experienced anything else quite like it. I probably never will, either, simply because of it's heavy reliance on a much-hated feature of mid-90s games - Full-motion video. Released on the PC and the ludicrously expensive Panasonic 3DO, the game relied entirely on FMV and 2D sprites - and somehow worked marvelously. The game wasn't so much a "race" as it was a battle to the death: the player's objective was simply to destroy all the opposing racers, one at a time, before he completed three laps of a race, at which point the level would end. The racetracks had markers all over them that caused all sorts of chaos whenever they were run over, from simply adding or subtracting points, to de-weaponizing your car, to reversing the controls, to causing the whole screen to look as though it just had a really bad trip. Despite having short-range guns, most of the time, destroying other vehicles was a matter of sheer brute force - repeatedly bashing the target into the sidewall as hard as possible (It's as fun as it sounds). Fortunately, the FMV-based tracks all look fantastic, and the cars handle remarkably well. It doesn't hurt that the cutscenes are equally entertaining - The futuristic, cyberpunk television-show atmosphere and the delightfully snide mockery of over-the-top host Lance Boyle all serve to compliment the high-speed action. Seriously - his tastelessly-dressed persona is almost as lovably psychotic as Valve's own GLaDos. That's high praise.

But I would be remiss if I didn't mention the very best part of Megarace: The music. This is the single greatest chiptune soundtrack ever made, bar none. Yes, even better than Descent's. As much as I would love to remake a Megarace number one day, I simply can't - because all of them are fantastic. High-res recordings and instruments, no matter how well-matched to the original they might be, would probably actually bring the whole thing down - the music is that good. Don't believe me? Take a listen to one of the many tunes here on YouTube:

Terminal City - MegaRace Music arrangement 06

I think it's significant if only because FMV was generally awful in gaming, and yet this one made an entirely 2D, FMV-based driving experience not only passable, but downright thrilling. And the combat-based gameplay hasn't really been recreated since - which is a shame, because it was so fresh in the world of me-too car combat racers. Only in the very recent WipEout HD Fury release for the PS3 via the Playstation Network have I seen fully fleshed-out, position-independent race combat mode. And you know what? It's fantastic. But Megarace did it first, with more style, more character, and more smashing-people-into-walls (which will never get old, ever).

Megarace, bundled with it's frustratingly un-fun and un-funny sequel, can be had at Good Old Games for a well-worth-the-buy six dollars. Also available is Megarace 3... but that's more or less a barely mediocre WipEout clone with a far creepier Lance Boyle. You'd be wise to stick with the first game and the first game only.

[VANGUARD]

I'm not good with gaming history, but some I found impressive (at the time)

7th Guest - This game had real peoples acting right in the game. It wasn't HD by any means, but you knew these were people, not "great graphics that brought on realism."

11th Hour - Sequel to 7th Guest, some was about the same. I'm assuming this time, mostly the cut scenes, they added videos in the game to give it that realistic look.

Maabus - Maybe not that groundbreaking, especially if after these two games. There was a small video of someone talking with you, again, using real videos. it was very limited, small, and the videos itself were short.

X-Wing VS Tie Fighter - Maybe no groundbreaker; maybe a little unique. Not so much for being on either side; but it had a soundtrack on the CD that would change depending on what happened in the mission. Basic though.



Fallout, the racing-demolition derby, etc game? I had that when I was on Mandriva, 2007 or '08 I think. Kind of fun for a little while, but mostly played the demolition derby style games.

[Foil]

One that I've played recently: Megarace. This one stands out to me, only because I've never really experienced anything else quite like it. I probably never will, either, simply because of it's heavy reliance on a much-hated feature of mid-90s games - Full-motion video.

Wow, I remember that game.  Actually, now that I think about it, I played (and generally finished) a bunch of FMV games around that same era:

Iron Helix 
Dust: A Tale of the Wired West
Mad Dog McCree
Return to Zork
Quantum Gate
Critical Path

Man, that brings back some memories...

I wonder what we will think of all the current crop of FPS shooters in another fifteeen or twenty years?

[Matthew]

I'm guessing most current games won't be remembered as anything significant. Especially the CoD games, simply because there's so damn many of them.

[NUMBERZero]

I have another one, MechWarrior. MechWarrior provided a more realistic possibility of having giant mechs fighting each other (as opposed to the "anime" mechs (like Armored Core) with their super dexterous mechs accelerating and decelerating at rates that would kill anyone in an instant). Way back then, MechWarrior had horrible graphics, but so much diversity in its mechs and weapons. There were even BattleTech Centers in a couple places where people went to sit in a Battle Mech simulator and play verses others at the center

Discovery Channel Beyond 2000 Battletech Center 1992