Topic: Who else thinks kids nowadays are effed in the head?

[CrazyEnzo03]

I'm fully convinced good kids with good grades who go to church every Sunday and almost always behave and be good and whatnot can snap and do something they may or will regret for the rest of their life.

I would know because there are several cases where I almost wound up being one of them

[-<WillyP>-]

No apologies needed Bett, I appreciate your sharing your opinion.

@ Foil, no need to agree, we are all just talking. We don't have to agree to be friends. If we all agreed on everything it would get pretty boring here, agreed? 

[Scyphi]

Well, glad to see that all worked out rather nicely.

Now for me to do some working out of my own...

@WillyP: I knew from the beginning you weren't actually accusing anyone of being communist, but that's what it came off as to me, so I was trying to point out that one could take it as that (I was especially worried how Bett was going to take it, but clearly I was overreacting there). In retrospect, though, I phrased all of that terribly and made it worse, and clearly offended you a heck of a lot more than I had intended, so I humbly apologize for that. In fact, let's just forget I even said that at all. Complete mistake for me to have even gone there.

I'm fully convinced good kids with good grades who go to church every Sunday and almost always behave and be good and whatnot can snap and do something they may or will regret for the rest of their life.

Ditto this. Just a sad and simple truth, and there really isn't anything anyone can do to prevent it sometimes.

[Foil]

@ Foil, no need to agree, we are all just talking. We don't have to agree to be friends. If we all agreed on everything it would get pretty boring here, agreed? 

I wasn't asking for agreement on everything.  I was just noticing that the disagreement seemed to be on the peripheral issues (the specifics of an ideal punishment, whether it should be handled by parents or the justice system, etc.), and thought there might be some consensus on the core issues.

[Alieo]

Okay, I've watched this silently for too long. Here I go...

I would seek criminal charges in the form of community service without jail time and most importantly a psychological evaluation for the reasons I explained. Kaiaatsel mentioned service in an animal shelter and that sounds like a great idea. A full summer and a few essays on the subject of animal cruelty would wipe the criminal charge clean....pending results of the evaluation.

Also, relying on parents to correct the problems with the group we are speaking of can't be counted on. They need evaluation by a trained professional to make sure they aren't just another group of kids that will eventually ruin his or her life. How many times have we heard parents or neighbors say "I can't believe he did that. He was always a polite and pleasant kid with good grades"...or "She would never do something like that, it must be a mistake".

No matter how much you believe your child to be an angel, some have a true dual personality.

Today we are so inundated with politically correct liberal nonsense, they are actually considering criminal charges! What the hell is wrong with society today, that parents can't be allowed to do their job and tell the kids, DON'T TORTURE ANIMALS?

Both of you are right.

WillyP, nowadays, parents aren't allowed to lay a hand on their kids. Parents' powers have been taken away by the government and the children know this. I truly believe that "today we are so inundated with politically correct liberal nonsense." I do support charges in this case because in the state of Texas, animal cruelty is a state jail felony. The reason being is because Texas is a HUGE hunting state. Hell, they even allow hunting for sport! But this was a downright blasphemous act by a group of heartless individuals.

I am all for spanking children, but BECAUSE we have all these G-D mandates and restrictions on HOW we can parent our children, I do agree that they should volunteer at an animal shelter so that they can gain respect for creatures smaller than themselves, but I'm not for government funds to be forced on the situation. HOWEVER, because parents nowadays don't give a flying f*** anymore, the government has taken over what parents should and shouldn't do. The vast majority of children today are a result of unwanted pro-life accidents, and the parents don't step up and do their jobs. I know, personally, that I don't want kids because it is absolute HELL raising them in this society today. Screw it! Not for me!

@WillyP... For the record, everything following the first paragraph in my last post was a general comment on the OP and not directed at you. My apologies if you thought otherwise but overall I'm not having any second thoughts about an evaluation for these kids. I've visited China for a week too.

@Bettina I see no need for you to apologize for what you said. You made your opinion and he made his. But WillyP saying you have "bleeding heart liberal solutions" to me is a total disregard of respect for your opinions. C'mon, WillyP! I know you strongly feel opinionated about nanny state governments, and I do partially agree with you, but Bettina's a really sweet and considerate person to have around on this forum and I don't think she deserves to have someone say that to her. You're one of the forum administrators for Christ's sake! Have some class, man. I think you owe her an apology.

I really envy your low post count, Bettina. I hope this doesn't deter you from contributing. If I'm sorry for anything it's for starting this damn thread.

[Matthew]

IHateHackers raises a few good points too, mostly the fact that some parents just aren't going to pull through, but as for how to take of the kids in such a situation afterwards is still debatable and depending entirely on the situation. Again, I'm not sure something as simple as community service is going to be enough in this instance. Otherwise I would, admittedly, be all for it.

Well, if there are huge abandonment issues, then yeah, it's not enough. But if the children are otherwise doing fine aside from questionable morals and lack of appreciation for life, it's a good solution. Not only will it teach them the value of life, but it will also teach them the value of hard work which prepare them for the rest of their lives when they move out as soon as they scrape together 500$.

Also, I don't foresee this thread ending well...

[-<WillyP>-]

An apology for calling a solution a 'bleeding heart liberal solution'? No. I don't apologize for being conservative, or having conservative solution, or libertarian leanings either. Don't get hung up on labels, they are just useful metaphors, would it be better if I said far left, or progressive liberal? I don't believe I have insulted anybody, and being sweet and nice has nothing to do with this topic.

And I already said, no need for Bett to apologize. I see nothing wrong with expressing opinions, as long as we aren't flinging insults, it's all good.

[Kaiaatzl]

You could respect other peoples' political views.  You don't need to apologize for your own opinions in order to recognize that other people's opinions, when it comes to politics, are equally right.

[-<WillyP>-]

How have I disrespected anyone's views? So typical of the liberal crowd, any disagreement is intolerable, except your own. There's nothing wrong with having a civil discourse. Don't be offended just because someone criticizes your views.

I respect your right to disagree and your right to express that disagreement, please respect mine. I certainly don't apologize for my views in order to recognize when someone else is right. But I also don't think that just because someone's opinion is different than mine they are automatically right.

In fact if someone expresses an opinion different that mine, logic follows that either I change my opinion, or I think they are wrong. Follow?

In other words, I respect the person, I respect their right to a different opinion, and to express their opinion, as I have done, but I am under no obligation to consider their opinion as right, or to respect the opinion itself.

[Scyphi]

How have I disrespected anyone's views? So typical of the liberal crowd, any disagreement is intolerable, except your own. There's nothing wrong with having a civil discourse. Don't be offended just because someone criticizes your views.

This is actually what we're getting at, WillyP, the fact that if we even so much hint we disagree with you, you accuse us of all being "liberal" and the such. Which can, and has, been taken as an insult. Not a good thing, especially if the other people don't actually consider themselves liberal (whether or not you think they actually are is beside the point).

You claim to be tolerant of views opposing your own, but you haven't done much to show for it. Now I wholly respect your political view WillyP, and in this case, am actually more inclined to side with you (not to say others haven't brought up good points that I favor as well, because you all have) and don't really want to do much of anything to oppose you on this, but just because you don't agree with our views doesn't entitle you to this..."you're all wrong and I'm right" vibe we get from comments such as the one quoted above (intentional or not).

I don't expect you to apologize for anything, nor do I expect you to retract any of your views either, much less not defend them. You're welcome to do all of that. Just...try and be a little more courteous about it.

....

Please don't blow up in my face, please don't blow up in my face, please don't blow up in my face, oh please, oh please, oh PLEASE don't blow up in my face...

[-<WillyP>-]

Is being accused of being a liberal a bad thing? If you believe in liberalism, it should be a compliment, no? I have never... NEVER criticized anyone for disagreeing with me. I criticize opinions if they are, in my opinion, different then mine, because, obviously, I consider them wrong until shown otherwise.

Don't be so fragile in support of your own opinion, that you take my opinion of your opinions as such a crushing blow that you feel offended. Stand up for what you feel is right, and if you feel I am wrong, please say so, but do please explain why I am wrong.

Calling someones opinions liberal is only an insult if you perceive it to be... and if it is an insult, doesn't that mean liberalism is wrong? If you called my opinions conservative, I would take that as a good thing.

[Kaiaatzl]

...So typical of the liberal crowd, any disagreement is intolerable, except your own.

That's an example of disrespecting someone else's views.

[Foil]

Okay, things are getting personal in here.

If you guys want to discuss the finer points of political views, that's fine.  But the personal assumptions/accusations/suppositions need to stop.

[Bettina]

Alieo....

There are three forums that I monitor and participate in if time permits and the subject is interesting. Those are planetdescent.net, politicalforum.com, and debatepolitics.com where I'm registered as Bettina or Bee. The post counts are low there too because time isn't really on my side like it used to be a few years ago. However, I'm much more active in a nursing forum using my middle name that I want to keep private. I use that forum to learn different techniques from other nurses, ask questions, and to help my mental state too.

Other than lack of time, my post count at PD is low because I'm not a gaming person with the exception being D3 online multiplayer which I really enjoy playing. Since PD doesn't allow threads that are political or religious in nature there aren't many topics here that really interest me until your thread came along. I found it a welcome addition to the usual fare because it dealt with human nature, children, and empathy which are tops on my lists of interests. So, I thank you for this thread and I hope you continue those contributions.

WillyP....

You're somewhat spirited and no apologies are requested or needed from me. I agree with you that it's all good and since you seem to be taking hits from some of the members today, I feel an emerging sense of empathy to comfort you.... A bleeding heart liberal thing.....which I am. 

Bee

[Alieo]

*SIGH* Look, I understand we all have each other's opinions here. I was simply standing up for something that I personally thought was out of bounds. It took me awhile to interfere because I was debating whether or not I should get too deeply tangled in it, but since I'm in this deep, might as well clear the air.

If I see someone saying something that I think is out of bounds, I'll say something, and I did. Bettina is obviously tough as nails when it comes to political debates and wasn't offended in the slightest. Which brings me to my next point...

How have I disrespected anyone's views? So typical of the liberal crowd, any disagreement is intolerable, except your own. There's nothing wrong with having a civil discourse. Don't be offended just because someone criticizes your views.

This is actually what we're getting at, WillyP, the fact that if we even so much hint we disagree with you, you accuse us of all being "liberal" and the such. Which can, and has, been taken as an insult. Not a good thing, especially if the other people don't actually consider themselves liberal (whether or not you think they actually are is beside the point).

Scyphi, I have new respect for that third ball you just grew. You hit it right on the money. I sure as HELL am not liberal, but I don't believe anything that bellows from the mouths of Faux News reporters or their talk radio affiliates. For the record, I look at both sides. I'm middle of the road, and I am SO voting for Ron Paul. I am SICK and TIRED of the LIBERALS vs CONSERVATIVES bullsh!+. We need to find common ground, and fast, or this country will stay in the HELL it's entered, and there'll be no turning back!

With that being said, when it comes to political arguments, I am NOT afraid to voice my opinion! I agree with Bettina's suggestions on the matter AND I agree with WillyP's views on the matter, minus his assumptions of other people's political beliefs.  I do think the kids should work in an animal shelter and write essays about their experiences when they're done BASED ON a court ruling to do so, because some parents nowadays are inept at teaching their kids anything, but any expenses should come out if THEIR OWN POCKET. It's not the government's place to pay for something like this. They're children. It would be a different story if they were in their late teens or if they were legal adults.

That's all I'm going to say on this matter. I'm done.