Topic: I now have IRREFUTABLE PROOF that the world's final year is 2012!

[Alieo]

Dick Clark has passed away this morning. There will no longer be anyone around to ring in the new year, thus 2012 will go on forever. Rest in Peace, Dick!

http://news92fm.com/241749/dick-clark-82-dies-after-massive-heart-attack/

[CrazyEnzo03]

Hold on there, turbo.

By Hume's law, this is not necessarily the case.  For just because the new year came in upon his ringing in of it does not mean that in the future, without his ringing in of it, will it not come.  Just because we have knowledge of what is or has been does not mean we can use it to derive what shall be!!

[VANGUARD]

I'm sure he is just kidding, only to give news about Dick Clark passing away, but for the sake of the topic,

The world existed before he was born, so him dying won't change anything.
Also, the Lord has mentioned, no one here on earth will know when the Earth shall come to an end.
In other words, to ALL on this earth, it will be a "surprise"


..............who's Dick Clark? sounds like someone I should know.

[Alieo]

Oh, but I tell ye it is NO coincidence that the man who rings in New Year's Day dies the same year the Mayans predicted "the end of life as we know it!" The end times are coming! Stock up on RTEs, buy a bomb shelter, build multiple rockets and arks! This is the big one!

Personally, since I AM an alien, I suppose I'll just take off on my flying saucer and go back to where I came from.

[Kaiaatzl]

Well it's the end of his life as he knows it.  Not to be harsh or anything.  I think I'll go eat his corpse.

You know, not being human and all, it'll be pretty fun to watch as your whole tyrranic species snuffs it; but I will kinda miss everyone else in this community.
Ah well, I'll find a way to stay in touch with Alieo and any other survivors.
Hey, maybe whatever sort of calamity will happed causes an ice age, and then I can finally go everywhere and explore the world.  And gloat over Alieo's frozen UFO from beneath my thick white fur, but that's another story.

Also, you mean the man who rings in the new year for the US, which technically means that it's only the end of AMERICA.


On a TOPIC THAT IS DEFINITELY RELATED TO THIS ONE AND WILL NEVER CAUSE THIS THREAD TO DERAIL, I like the sarcasm that infuses every fiber of cellulose and/or synthetic polymer in this thread.

[VANGUARD]

Give me 3 good signs the end of the world will occur on 12.21.12. Give me 5 signs, 10, man, why not 2012 signs.
I give you one that says it won't end. The Lord says "no human, not even Jesus Christ knows the last day."

and what is this, 'prepare for the end with getting supplies.' the end is the end. It's like saying, the movie is ending, grab the popcorn and drinks. what's the point? The end is the end.

[Alieo]

All kidding aside. Personally, I'm not afraid of dying. None of us "die," unless we commit an act so evil and never seek redemption, then it's down to the icy pits of hell we go (I believe hell is cold, not hot, because love is warm, atoms move fast when heated and speed up where as hell is like, zero Kelvin, all mater completely stops, and it is so cold it burns). We just transition into the spiritual realm. Christian beliefs or not, I believe in reincarnation and that we better ourselves and our spirits from the decisions we make in our daily lives and several lifetimes. Yeah, no one knows when it'll really be, but I am damn curious to find out what happens on 12/21/12. By the way, Nostradamus says it'll be in 3797. With that said, yes, we will be around for the rapture, some way or another. Or, we may be still waiting for our chance to bat in the dugout and be watching from the other side.

For the record, I'm not an atheist or agnostic. I consider myself "pan-religious." Instead of being a part of one religion and saying all the other beliefs are wrong and they're going to eternal damnation for not being on my path, I believe ALL religions are correct. I view religion as a giant circle maze with all these paths zig-zagging to get to the center, which is the deity. They may have different ways to get to the center, but they all get there.

[VANGUARD]

how is it all religions are correct? That's like saying some believe 2+2 is 4, while others say 2+2 equals 6, some say 7, some say 4.23 and yet, all are right.

I'm not here to convert people or preach, but I hate hearing "all religions are correct". makes NO sense in my mind.

[TechPro]

Using Alieo's reasoning, you could easily reason that all politicians (or candidates) are correct.  You could pick any war (past, present or future) and claim that both sides are right.  You could claim the world is flat and is the center of the universe then also claim the world is round and orbits a sun in an outer region of the galaxy ... And be right both times.

That way of reasoning isn't a reasoning of truth, it's a reasoning of convenience, so that the person doesn't have to actually make a choice.

[Kaiaatzl]

I agree with Alieo sort of.
I don't think it matters what you believe in, only that you believe in something bigger than yourself.  And if what you believe is morally wrong, you'll pay for it after you die... but I'm not sure I believe in heaven or hell.

But I have strange beliefs anyway so don't listen to me.  I mean, I don't see why the creationist/evolutionist debate needs to even exist as a debate.  I mean, christians have a great way of explaining why both sides are probably right.

I agree with Vanguard about how trying to predict the Christian rapture is ridiculous.  But:

and what is this, 'prepare for the end with getting supplies.' the end is the end. It's like saying, the movie is ending, grab the popcorn and drinks. what's the point? The end is the end.

Some of us don't like to waste our popcorn just because the movie is over.  Some of us would rather finish it later than have it thrown into a landfill.  You know what Yawgmoth says: Waste not, want not.

[Scyphi]

I personally believe all religions typically have the right ideas (aka are on the right track) that varies from religion to religion, so in a way I see where Alieo's coming from. I do NOT believe they are ALL entirely correct, though, but then we start getting into matters of personal opinion/beliefs.

Personally, and some may disagree with me on this, but I'd rather see everybody be involved in a religion of some sort than none at all. It wouldn't be the most desirable outcome, no, and that's probably where I would set the bar at it's lowest, but to me, to be involved in a religion is better than to not be religious at all.

Of course, that also depends on how you define "religion."

Also, not to jinx things or anything because we're actually doing pretty good thus far, but I would like to just remind everyone continuing this topic to be careful not to start any flame wars or the such.

[Kaiaatzl]

Even if I did believe in the Rapture part of the Christian mythos (and I don't believe it literally, I believe it was a metaphor but that's beside the point), but even if I did believe it, I think it's entirely possible for humanity to destroy itself in many other ways before that time comes.

Don't forget it was the Mayans who predicted this -- not the Christians -- who knows, maybe they were predicting the Mayan equivalent of the rapture (if they had an equivalent) in which case Christians shouldn't be worried at all .

[Scyphi]

Actually, according to archeologists, it was far more likely that the Mayans simply stopped on 2012 for no other reason other than they didn't see a reason at the time to go any further (I mean it was still many centuries off for them), not so much because they thought the world would end in that year, much less specifically on the date 12/21.

At any rate, I honestly and fully expect that 12/21/2012 will end up be a rather ordinary day, and the world will spin on well after that date.

In other news, Techpro and I were watching an episode of classic Star Trek ("The Corbomite Manuever") and thought a line from said episode would be fitting for this end-of-the-world/religion discussion:

"You have been examined.
Your ship must be destroyed.
We make assumption you have a deity or deities
or some such beliefs which comfort you.
We therefore grant you
10 Earth time periods known as minutes
to make preparations."

...but I post that for no reason other than we both thought it'd be funny.

BTW, Kaiaatsel, it's worth noting that not all Christians believe in the principal of rapture.

[Alieo]

Bottom line, you have to look at what's right and what's wrong. Sure, not every religion is 100% pure and do deviate into immoral areas (extremists exist in every creed), but 100% of them ALL lead to a single deity or deities of worship. That is why it is a religion, and all of them have the same objective. That is why I don't discriminate on who's right or who's wrong, but rather live by a standard moral code of right and wrong. I am more spiritual than religious.

I don't just believe in the afterlife, I know, and I know we are all connected through deep roots in the subconscious river that flows and connects ALL of us. Most of us are just not in tune with these deeper levels of consciousness because of the fog we live in. What you see now and feel around you as you read this doesn't seem like a fog, but it is, because we're not in tune with our roots on the other side.

Imagine, if you will, an island. What is an island? All it is is an underwater mountain whose peak breaks the ocean surface. Now imagine the crest of that mountain/island; that's where we are. If you go deeper down the slope of the mountain, you go underwater. What happens when you go underwater? Your reality changes; sounds are different; you can't breathe. Anything below the surface is the subconscious. You can't LIVE in that world because you don't have gills, but you can visit it for short periods of time (meditation, sleep, drugs, etc). That's what shamans do. Our spirits, however, are from there. They HAVE gills. All this is figuratively, of course. In a sense, our spirits are in a "reverse diving suit" and are visiting this realm to better themselves spiritually. But my point is, sometimes, people are so caught up in individual religions, they neglect the spirituality involved WITH their religion. They, along with atheists, have been on land too long, and think that the "above surface" world is the only plane of existence. That doesn't make them bad people. Hey, ignorance is bliss, right? I don't have anything against atheists. I'm not going to say they're going to burn in eternal damnation for not knowing. That's not for ANYONE to judge. The higher power lives within them, along with every person, plant, animal, fungi, protozoa, and within the energy signatures of non-living objects. They'll get their chance, whether it's this life or the next.

Remember the big bang? Okay, this is just my theory, but, think about it for a moment; what CAUSED the big bang? Well, the universe started with this explosion, and eons later, galaxies form, planetary systems are made, etc. I theorize that this big bang has happened SEVERAL times. It's a cycle. You have a big bang, the universe grows, and then when EVERY star turns into a black hole, they suck each other all in together, causing the great collapse, and then the impact from that collapse causes... ANOTHER big bang! Over and over. No matter what level of life forms you look at, plants die and are reborn, people die and are reborn, planets die and are reborn, the universe dies and is reborn, all the same elements in an eternal yo-yo effect; Yin and Yang eternally oscillating.

But WHY the eternal cycle? What exactly IS this universe? I believe there is no boundary to the universe... in a sense. I believe it has a border somewhere. Think of a cell in a microscope. If you zoom in enough, you'll see that it has it's own little universe in there. That cell IS a universe. Especially a brain cell. A brain cell looks like our universe. Observe the second picture. There IS no boundary between the microscopic and macroscopic. It's all parts of a whole.

[Kaiaatzl]

"You have been examined.
Your ship must be destroyed.
We make assumption you have a deity or deities
or some such beliefs which comfort you.
We therefore grant you
10 Earth time periods known as minutes
to make preparations."

EXTERMINATE!

There is something to be said for inventing your own belief system from scratch, I'm not sure I agree with it (and you can't make me ), but I respect it just like I'd respect someone from another religion.  I mean, it's one thing to have beliefs but it's quite another to be completely unwilling to admit that you could possibly be wrong.  Some might call that unwillingness "faith" but I call it "close-minded stubborness".   (I was going to use another word that begins with an "n" instead of stubborness but stubborn doesn't have the negative connotations of that word).